HC Deb 01 July 1915 vol 72 cc2075-6

If any employer, or the owner of any establishment or any workman, for the purpose of evading any provision of this Act, makes any false statement or representation, or gives any false certificate, or furnishes any false information, or wears any badge in a manner calculated to deceive, he shall be guilty of an offence under this Act.

Mr. LOUGH

I beg to move, after the word "Act" ["evading any provision of this Act"], to insert the word "knowingly."

I hope the right hon. Gentleman will accept this Amendment. This Clause deals with the penalty for false statements, and applies both to the employer and the workman. It provides that if anyone makes a false statement or representation he shall be liable to penalties. I propose to insert the word "knowingly" because so many people do not know about this legislation and will not know all the facts about it and the penalties that may be incurred under it. I therefore provide that if anyone "knowingly" makes a false statement or representation he shall be liable.

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

The word "false" implies in law intention to deceive. That implies that it must be done knowingly. It is not merely a mistake; it must be an intention to deceive, and that is quite enough.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Further Amendment made: Leave out the words "or wears any badge in a manner calculated to deceive" ["furnishes any false information or wears any badge"].

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill."

Mr. KING

I do not think this Clause is at all a good one. I have a new Clause down which would be a very great improvement on this. It is a new Clause headed, "Penalty for making false statement." I do not know whether the Minister of Munitions has considered my Clause, but if he has and he tells me that he prefers his own, I will not say any more. I think if he is candid he will say he prefers mine.

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

Naturally I prefer my own Clause before the hon. Member's.

Question, "That the Clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill," put, and agreed to.