SHERIFF COURTS (SCOTLAND) BILL. (Hansard, 30 November 1914)

§ The LORD ADVOCATE (Mr. Munro)
My right hon. Friend the Secretary for Scotland has asked me to move the Second Reading of this Bill, and I can do so in a very few sentences. The immediate purpose which the Bill is designed to serve 726 is to enable the Secretary for Scotland to appoint interim sheriff-substitutes in the place of those who are at present engaged in military service on behalf of their country. The present situation is that under the Sheriff Courts (Scotland) Act, 1907, the Secretary for Scotland can only appoint an interim sheriff-substitute if the holder of that office is absent on the ground of ill-health. Accordingly, when those gentlemen to whom I have referred, whose public spirit I am sure the House will recognise, took upon themselves to elect to serve the country in a military capacity, the Secretary for Scotland found himself in this position: that he was unable, under the existing law, to appoint interim sheriff-substitutes to take their places and perform their duties. Hence this Bill. It is quite true that the Bill goes a little further than the particular object to which I have referred. It proposes to give the Secretary for Scotland power to appoint an interim sheriff-substitute for any reasonable cause. The House will probably agree with me that this is a very reasonable proposal, especially when I remind them that it merely confers upon the Secretary for Scotland, in regard to sheriff-substitutes, the power he already possesses with regard to sheriffs. With regard to sheriffs, the Secretary for Scotland at the present time can appoint interim sheriffs on any reasonable ground. For some reason or other he has not that power so far as interim sheriff-substitutes are concerned, and this Bill is designed to give him that necessary and desirable power, I need only say, in conclusion, that I have had the advantage with regard to this measure of consulting with the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Central Glasgow (Mr. Scott Dickson), and also with the hon. Baronet who represents the Ayr Burghs (Sir George Younger), and they both agree with the view that this Bill, as framed, is a necessary and desirable measure. I therefore hope the House will give it a Second Reading.

§ Mr. WATT
As indicated by the Lord Advocate in the observations he has just addressed to the House, this measure is brought in by his Department to enable officers in Scotland called sheriff-substitutes to take part in the military service of the State, and the powers which this 727 measure gives to the Secretary for Scotland enable him to appoint interim sheriff-substitutes for those gentlemen while they are serving in a military capacity. No one in this House has the slightest desire to prevent that, but in bringing this about the Department over which the Lord Advocate presides has gone much further than the intent with which they set out, namely, that these gentlemen should be allowed substitutes while they are called up for military service. Indeed, the Memorandum in front of the Bill indicates clearly the position of affairs. If the House will compare the Memorandum with the actual measure they will find that they in no way correspond, and that the measure goes much further than the Memorandum. The Memorandum says:— Cases have arisen where, on account of the War, sheriff-substitutes have been called up for military service and are absent from duty on that ground. And it enables the Secretary for Scotland to appoint interim sheriff-substitutes to perform the duties while they are away. If the House will turn to the measure as moved by the Lord Advocate, they will find that, instead of putting in the words "or for military service," they have put in the words "or for other reasonable cause," which are much wider. This measure, if passed into law, will enable the Secretary for Scotland in the case of sheriff-substitutes, who are by no means overworked men, leave of absence for any reasonable cause and allow him to appoint interim sheriff-substitutes. For example, the sheriff-substitute may represent to the Secretary for Scotland that he is going off on his wedding tour, and I dare say the Secretary for Scotland will consider that a reasonable cause for absence from his duties. But I think that power should not be put into the hands of the Secretary for Scotland. There are forty-nine sheriff-substitutes in Scotland, and I think the Lord Advocate will not contradict me when I say that there are only six or seven of these, in the populous districts, who have anything like hard work to do and that the other forty-three have a very leisurely time. The sheriff-substitute in the district in which I am interested has one day's work a week and he can get a half-holiday on that day when he pushes 728 matters. I hope the Lord Advocate will see his way to substitute for the words "other reasonable cause" the words "military service."

§ Mr. HOGGE
I think the Lord Advocate should give some reply to my hon. colleague. No one in the House, certainly not the Scottish Members, has any desire to delay any emergency Bill which is necessary for the purpose of the War. But the words of which my hon. Friend complains have appeared to a large number of us who have looked at this Bill to provide too wide a margin for the exercise of the power of the Secretary for Scotland or the Lord Advocate in appointing substitutes for these men. It ought to be reasonably possible, and I submit this as a purely business point to the Lord Advocate, to ascertain now what number of sheriff-substitutes are likely to offer themselves for this particular service, and if the Lord Advocate can assure my hon. Friend and those of us who represent constituencies in Scotland that he will so alter the wording of the Bill as to confine entirely the appointment of substitutes to those sheriff-substitutes who are absent on duties connected with the War, there will be no further objection to his measure going through. If he cannot see his way to do that, it may be for us to consider whether we shall put down Amendments on the Committee stage and raise the point further. I do not think the request we are making is unreasonable, that for this particular and special purpose the words which are used should be so defined as to make them directly applicable to that purpose and to no other.

§ Mr. MUNRO
I have listened with attention to what has been said by my two hon. colleagues, and the point which they raise is obviously a Committee point, and if any Amendment is put down to give effect to the view which they have expressed, I shall consider it with great care. I do not think the words "military service" quite meet the situation, because it is conceivable that a sheriff-substitute might be called upon for some other duty in connection with the service of their country at this juncture which would not be precisely covered by these words. I am only asking the House to confer the same power upon the Secretary for Scotland 729 which he already enjoys with regard to sheriffs in connection with sheriff-substitutes. It seems an anomaly that the distinction should exist and the opportunity of getting rid of it is a very fitting one.

§ Mr. PRINGLE
The Lord Advocate has referred to the distinction made between sheriffs and sheriff-substitutes under the Act. It is true that leave of absence may be given to a sheriff, not only on account of ill-health but on account of any other reasonable cause, whereas the alternative does not exist in regard to sheriff-substitutes. But the Act which we are amending is a very recent Act. It was only passed in 1907, and when it was passed through this House it was carefully examined by the Scottish Standing Committee. It seems rather strange, therefore, that an Act so recently passed and examined by the Scottish Members should have preserved such a distinction without some very good reason, and consequently, if so recently Parliament has decided to make this distinction, surely it is taking a very large step, owing to the special circumstances of this War, to remove the distinction altogether. I agree with my hon. Friends who have spoken, that if it is merely to be emergency legislation, the terms of the Bill which we are now passing should be confined to the causes connected with the emergency.

§ Mr. HOGGE
Are we not entitled to have the Bill sent to the Scottish Grand Committee? It turns entirely on Scottish business.

§ Mr. SPEAKER
The hon. Member can, if he likes, oppose the Motion to commit the Bill to Committee of the Whole House.