§ 54. Mr. R. GWYNNEasked the Prime Minister whether the President of the Local Government Board has any authority or control over the Road Board?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEI would refer the hon. Member to the provisions of the Act of 1909, by which the Road Board was constituted.
§ Mr. GWYNNEMay I ask whether the President of the Local Government Board has authority to require the Road Board to do certain acts on his behalf?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEIt is a perfectly independent body.
§ Mr. KELLAWAYHas anyone control over the Road Board?
§ Mr. STUART-WORTLEYIs the effect of the reply that there is no one answerable to this House for this body?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEIf the right hon. Gentleman will wait, there is another question to that effect later on which I am going to answer.
§ 55. Mr. GWYNNEasked the Prime Minister who is answerable at the present time to this House for the acts and work of the Road Board?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEThe powers of the Road Board are exercised with the approval of the Treasury, and my hon. Friend the Financial Secretary is prepared to deal with questions relating to the acts and work of the Board.
§ Mr. GWYNNEAre we to understand that the recent action of the Road Board requiring local authorities to start an expensive scheme for the classification of roads comes under the sanction of the Secretary to the Treasury?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEI think the hon. Member must put that question down.
§ Mr. KELLAWAYIs it not a fact that, whoever may answer, the House has no control over that body?
§ Mr. GWYNNEIn consequence of the unsatisfactory answer to this question, I beg to give notice that at the end of questions I shall ask leave to move the Adjournment of the House.
§ 80 and 81. Mr. R. GWYNNEasked the President of the Local Government Board under what Section and what Act highway authorities have power to incur unlimited costs in the preparation of the classification of all roads in their respective areas, including the supply of coloured maps and the taking of a census of traffic for sixteen hours per day from 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. for seven consecutive days; and (2) whether his attention has been called to a circular issued by the Road Board, dated 30th April, at his direction, in which local highway authorities are requested to prepare and send in to the Road Board a detailed classification of all the roads in their respective areas and in which authorities making proposals for classification should send in preliminary particulars on or before 18th May; whether he is aware that many highway authorities meet only once a month, and therefore clerks and surveyors have been forced, on their own initiative and responsibility, to start an expensive scheme of classification without the elected representatives being consulted; and, if so, what action he proposes to take in the matter?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELThe circular referred to was issued by the Road Board, not at my direction, but with my concurrence and that of the Treasury. Highway authorities have not been asked to send any particulars by 18th of May, except a list of the points at which they propose to take a census of traffic. There does not appear to be any difficulty in the way of their officers obtaining such instructions as may be necessary before any material expense is incurred. The expenses which highway authorities may incur in preparing their proposals, which I do not anticipate will be considerable, are within their competence to meet in the performance of their administrative duties.
§ Mr. GWYNNEIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Road Board have written definitely, when asked by highway authorities what power they had to require this classification, that they had been doing it at the request of the President of the Local Government Board; and is he further aware that large sums have already been spent in many cases by the officials of local authorities in order to comply with the request of his circular?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELNo, Sir. The Road Board has been considering for some time the question of the classification of roads for their own purposes, and they sent out a circular to the local authorities asking for particulars with regard to the traffic on their roads for the purpose of enabling the Road Board to fulfil its statutory functions, and at the same time they said, at my request, that they would be glad if the particulars could be submitted in such a form as would be useful for the purposes of the Grants proposed under the Budget.
§ Mr. GWYNNEIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that last Thursday his Under-Secretary, in his absence, said in answer to my question, "It is for the local authorities to supply the particulars for which we have asked," and how can he reconcile that statement, and also the definite statement of the Road Board that this classification has been done at the request of the Local Government Board, with his statement today?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELI think that the hon. Member is mistaken. I have not seen any correspondence of the Road 1594 Board, but I have seen the original circular, which was almost exactly in the terms I have described. My right hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary was referring to the request I was making to the Road Board, that when they were obtaining these particulars they should obtain them in such a form that they would also be useful for the purposes of the Grants.
§ Mr. LEIF JONESAre not the local authorities glad to supply these particulars, which they hope will result in their obtaining money from the Exchequer?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELI have had no complaints from any local authorities or persons acting on behalf of local authorities, nor have the Road Board received any complaints on the subject.
§ Mr. GWYNNEIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that the local authorities have not yet had an opportunity of meeting and considering these things?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELThe officers have been asked to do nothing except to give a list of places where a census of traffic would be taken, if it were taken. It is not necessary for the local authorities to take a census unless they so desire.
§ Mr. LANE-FOXHow can any local authority carry out the duty of counting the traffic at certain points from six in the morning till ten at night, as well as their ordinary duties, except at considerable extra cost?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELThe cost should be quite small, and it is incurred to enable the local authorities to get large increases of Grants from the Exchequer.
§ Mr. RUPERT GWYNNEI beg to ask leave to move the Adjournment of the House in order to call attention to a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely, the action of the Local Government Board in endeavouring to place a heavy financial burden on local authorities by calling upon them, through the Road Board, immediately to start a scheme of classification of roads without having obtained the necessary Parliamentary authorities.
The pleasure of the House having been signified, the Motion stood over, under Standing Order No. 11, until a Quarter-past Eight this evening.