§ 2. Mr. BARNESasked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether his attention has been drawn to the intimation of the 253 Postmaster-General of his intention to raise the minimum wage of adult men servants of the Post Office to 22s. per week; whether he can make a similar statement with respect to adult men serving under his department; and how many men in his department are now paid under 22s. per week?
§ 3. Sir GODFREY BARINGasked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether there are any employés of his department, other than men on the active list of the Navy, on full time and twenty-three years of age earning less than 22s. a week; and whether he proposes, on the lines of the Post Office, to raise their wages to that amount?
§ The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the BOARD of ADMIRALTY (Dr. Macnamara)The minimum wage for labourers in dockyards and naval establishments was raised to 23s. (22s. at Haulbowline) last year. There are 116 pensioner messengers, labourers and packers employed at the Admiralty on wages of less than 22s., of whom six are on a scale enabling them to proceed by increments to 24s. a week. The subject of their wages is under consideration. There are, further, a number of men employed at the colleges whose emoluments are less than 22s.; their cases are also under consideration. In addition, sixteen men employed under the Admiralty Works Department receive less than 22s., their rates being based on hourly local rates.
§ Mr. BARNESCan I take it that the hon. Gentleman is not in a position to make a statement promising the same measure of relief to these poorly paid men as has been granted by the Postmaster-General to the men in the Post Office?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAWell, we have about 55,000 employés. There are, as I said, 116 pensioner messengers, labourers, and packers at the Admiralty getting less than 22s. There are also a number of men at the colleges, servants and gardeners, and so on, getting less than 22s. I have said these cases are under consideration. There are also sixteen works men, thirteen at Shotley and three at Alderney, getting less than 22s.
§ 7. Mr. BARNESasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer, if he can sanction the establishment of a 22s. per week minimum wage to adult men in the departments; 254 and if he has already sanctioned such a rate for the Post Office?
§ The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER (Mr. Lloyd George)The matter referred to in the first part of the question is now under consideration. As regards the second, I would refer my hon. Friend to the statement on this subject made on Thursday last by my right hon. Friend the Postmaster-General.
§ 34. Sir GODFREY BARINGasked the President of the Board of Education whether there are any employés of his Department twenty-three years of age and on full time earning less than 22s. a week; and whether he proposes, on the lines of the Post Office, to raise their wages to that amount?
§ The PRESIDENT of the BOARD of EDUCATION (Mr. Pease)The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. The employés in question (I assume the hon. Member to refer to male employés only) are all temporary messengers, and as this class is common to a number of Departments of the Service their rates of pay are fixed by the Treasury on a uniform basis for the Service as a whole. I have called the attention of the Treasury to the rates of pay for temporary messengers, and the hon. Member may be aware that the Royal Commission on the Civil Service have recommended a substantial increase in the rate of pay for this class of officer.
§ Mr. BARNESMay we take it there are no men in this Department permanently employed on less than that wage?
§ 40. Sir GODFREY BARINGasked the President of the Local Government Board whether there are any employés of his Department twenty-three years of age and on full time earning less than 22s. a week; and whether he proposes, on the lines of the Post Office, to raise their wages to that amount?
§ The PRESIDENT of the LOCAL GOVERNMENT BOARD (Mr. Herbert Samuel)There are no such employés in my Department receiving from the State less than 22s. a week. There are five messengers who receive from the Department less than 22s. a week, but they also receive naval or military pensions.
§ Mr. JOHN WARDWhy should that be taken into account in arriving at the wages of these men?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELThey are a class of pensioner messengers.
§ 62. Sir GODFREY BARINGasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether there are any employés of his Department twenty-three years of age and on full time earning less than 22s. a week; and whether he proposes, on the lines of the Post Office, to raise their wages to that amount?
§ The SECRETARY of STATE for the HOME DEPARTMENT (Mr. McKenna)The only persons of twenty-three years of age employed on full time under the Home Office who are earning less than 22s. a week are two pensioner messengers, who receive 21s. a week as wages in addition to their pension, and one female personal clerk to a lady inspector, who is on a scale of pay which will shortly bring her salary above 22s.
§ Mr. ROBERT HARCOURTDoes my right hon. Friend approve of the system of subsidy in aid of wages? Does it not tend to depress wages?
§ Mr. McKENNAIf my hon. Friend refers to the payment of pensioners, I would remind him that a Royal Commission recently reported in favour of that system.
13. Mr. TYSON WILSONasked the President of the Board of Agriculture if he is aware that the labourers employed at the Royal Gardens, Kew, are only being paid at the rate of 5½d. per hour, with 6d. per hour for overtime and Sunday duty; if he is aware that the labourers employed by the Office of Works are paid at the rate of 7½d. per hour, and the labourers employed by the Richmond Corporation at the rate of 27s. per week; and whether, in view of the high cost of living at Kew, he will bring the wage of the labourers at Kew Gardens up to the rate paid by the Office of Works?
§ The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the LOCAL GOVERNMENT BOARD (Mr. Herbert Lewis, for Mr. Runciman)The labourers employed at Kew Gardens are paid at the rate of 24s. per week, rising after five years' satisfactory service to 25s. per week; these rates are equivalent respectively to 5½d. and 5¾d. per 256 hour. The rate for overtime is 6d. per hour, and for Sunday duty 2s. 6d. for any period not exceeding five hours, with 6d. for every hour or part of an hour in excess of five hours. I am informed that the labourers employed by the Office of Works at Bushey Park, Richmond Park, and Hampton Court are paid at the same rates. The Board have no knowledge of the rates of wages paid by the Richmond Corporation. The Treasury last year sanctioned an increase of 1s. per week in the wages paid to all labourers employed at Kew Gardens.
Mr. TYSON WILSONCould the hon. Gentleman make inquiries with regard to the wages paid at different parks by corporations; and, if the figures are correct, will he use his best efforts to induce the Treasury to grant something like a living wage to these men?
§ Mr. H. LEWISI have already informed the hon. Member that in places properly comparable, at Bushey Park and at Richmond Park, the same rates of wages are being paid.
Mr. TYSON WILSONIs the hon. Gentleman aware that the Office of Works labourers when employed at Kew Gardens are paid 7½d. per hour?
§ Mr. W. THORNEDoes the hon. Gentleman think that 5½d. per hour is a living wage?
§ Mr. H. LEWISThat was not the question put to me.
§ Mr. BARNESDo I gather that the men are to remain at the minimum wage for five years before they get a rise of 1s.; and, if so, will the hon. Gentleman consider the advisability of altering that?
§ Mr. H. LEWISThe Treasury considered it very carefully twelve months ago.
§ Mr. CROOKSIs it any use asking some of the permanent officials who advised the giving of this wage to endeavour to live on it for a week?
§ 49. Mr. BARNESasked the Secretary of State for War whether his attention has been drawn to the intimation of the Postmaster-General of his intention to raise the minimum wage of adult men servants of the Post Office to 22s. per week; whether he can make a similar statement with respect to adult men 257 serving under his Department; and will he state how many men in his Department are now paid under 22s. per week?
§ 50. Sir GODFREY BARINGasked the Secretary of State for War whether, in his Department, there are any employés twenty-three years of age and on full time, apart from men in the Regular Army, earning less than 22s. a week; and whether he proposes, on the lines of the Post Office, to raise their wages to that amount?
§ The FINANCIAL SECRETARY to the WAR OFFICE (Mr. Harold Baker)I hope shortly to make an announcement on this subject.
§ 51. Mr. LEACHasked the Postmaster-General the number of men, over twenty-one years of age, who are employed in any capacity in the Post Office at a wage of less than 6d. per hour?
§ The POSTMASTER-GENERAL (Mr. Hobhouse)I regret that the information asked for is not available. The collection of the necessary particulars would involve considerable labour and expense and time, and, perhaps in the circumstances, the hon. Member will not wish to press the question. I may, perhaps, refer the hon. Member to the announcement which I made last Thursday, when introducing the Post Office Estimates, on the subject of a minimum wage for Post Office employés at the age of twenty-three years.
§ Mr. JAMES HOGGEIs it not the case that, at any rate in the Edinburgh General Post Office, the temporary help in regard to sorting letters is employed at 5½d. an hour?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEI must ask for notice of that question.