HC Deb 31 March 1914 vol 60 cc1027-30
Mr. BONAR LAW

May I ask the First Lord of the Admiralty a question, of which I gave him notice last night, namely: Whether he will state the terms of the telegram which announced to the War Office the resignation of the colonel of the 16th Lancers?

Sir EDWARD GREY

It was understood that the right hon. Gentleman would ask this question, and in the absence of the Prime Minister the following answer has been sent over to me: No telegrams are missing. The War Office, as their reply shows, assumed that what was stated as regards the officers of the 5th Lancers applied also to those officers referred to in a later telegram.

Mr. BONAR LAW

Then are we to understand that the War Office dismissed the colonel of the 16th Lancers before they were informed he had resigned?

Sir E. GREY

What I understand from the answer which has just been given to me is that the War Office assumed from the first telegram of Sir Arthur Paget that the same conditions existed in the 16th Lancers as in the 5th Lancers, and they intended that reply to cover both.

Mr. BONAR LAW

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that all that was said in that telegram was, "Fear 16th Lancers will act in same way," and on the strength of that did they actually dismiss the colonel of the 16th Lancers?

Sir E. GREY

They received a subsequent telegram from Sir Arthur Paget, "Regret to report Brigadier and fifty-seven officers, 3rd Cavalry Brigade, prefer to accept dismissal if ordered North." That was, as I understand, the only information the War Office had before them at the time, and they sent a general telegram to Sir Arthur Paget which covered the whole circumstances of the case.

Mr. BONAR LAW

Does not the right hon. Gentleman not know that fifty-seven officers do not include the whole of the officers, and that they had no information whatever as to the resignation of the colonel, and yet they dismissed him without that information?

Sir E. GREY

What the War Office actually said was:— Direct Gough and officers commanding 5th and 16th Lancers to report themselves to the Adjutant-General at the War Office without delay. They should leave by first possible boat. They should be relieved of their commands, and officers are being sent to relieve them at once. Resignations of all officers should be refused. I understand that that telegram was sent on the assumption that the same conditions existed in both the 5th and the. 16th Lancers.

Mr. BONAR LAW

Is not the meaning of that that the War Office without any information that the colonel of the 16th Lancers had resigned, not only dismissed him but appointed his successor?

Sir E. GREY

No. The War Office received a telegram stating that there was a serious state of affairs regarding the 5th Lancers, and stating also— I much fear same conditions in 16th Lancers. It is only natural that they should send a telegram which covered both.

Mr. R. GWYNNE

If there were no other telegrams, why did the First Lord of the Admiralty say last night that there were some telegrams, and that they were so immaterial that they had not been published?

Sir E. GREY

I will point out further in reply that the War Office was not dismissing. The resignations were to be refused. Dismissal is a much more serious thing.

Mr. BONAR LAW

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that the telegram is a dismissal from his command, not from the Service, and does he say the War Office dismissed him from his command before they knew that he had resigned?

Sir E. GREY

It is quite clear that the War Office assumed that the 16th Lancers and the 5th Lancers had followed the same course, and they sent a telegram to the General Officers commanding that they should be relieved of their command—it is now known that they were relieved temporarily of their command—and that resignations should be refused.

Mr. BONAR LAW

Would not it be really better if the Government would lay before the House the actual telegrams which they received from Sir Arthur Paget?

Sir E. GREY

These are the telegrams. If there are further telegrams relating to this point which the right hon. Gentleman has raised with regard to the 5th and 16th Lancers, I will certainly have the matter inquired into, and see that they should be laid; but I understand that there are no further telegrams relating to this particular point. If there are, of course I have been misinformed in my answer, but I have no reason to suppose that there has been any misconception of the question which the right hon. Gentleman intended to ask, or that there has been any misconception in the answer with which I have been supplied.

Mr. BONAR LAW

What is the objection in the Government informing the House of Commons of the whole facts by laying all the telegrams received from Sir Arthur Paget?

Sir E. GREY

On every subject?

Mr. BONAR LAW

Connected with the resignation.

Sir E. GREY

I can only say in answer to the right hon. Gentleman's question that I will inform the Prime Minister of the question which the right hon. Gentleman has put, and which he has pressed, and I will make inquiry again as to whether there are any further telegrams upon this point.

Mr. PRINGLE

Might it not be advisable for the Leader of the Opposition to put the Government in possession of the telegrams in his possession?

Viscount HELMSLEY

In reference to the explanation of the right hon. Gentleman why did not the War Office also assume that the 4th Hussars were concerned in this, seeing that the only telegrams published refer to the brigadier and the brigade, and that the 4th Hussars were part of the brigade? Why did they make the assumption with regard to the 5th and the 16th Lancers, and not with regard to the 4th Hussars?

Sir E. GREY

I have already promised to make inquiries as to whether there are further telegrams on this point, and, if the Noble Lord wants more information on the point, I will include that in the inquiries.

Mr. PETO

Does the right hon. Gentleman approve of the principle of dismissal first and questions afterwards?

Mr. SPEAKER

That is a subject for debate.

Mr. JOHN WARD

Will the right hon. Gentleman also make inquiries as to the telegrams which were sent from the post office in this House to General Gough between 5 o'clock and 10 o'clock on Tuesday last?

Sir E. GREY

That is a matter on which I cannot get any information from the War Office.