§ 5. and 8. Mr. GINNELLasked the Chief Secretary for Ireland (1) whether Lady Chapman, of Killua Castle, has again changed her method of sale, and now proposes to sell her entire estate outside of the demense to the Estates Commissioners; if so, what was the date of her offer to do this; whether the Commissioners will, before dealing with the estate, ascertain the number of holdings on it now derelict in consequence of congestion; the number which do not comprise any land; the number consisting of less than half an acre each; the total number congested within the meaning of the Land Act of 1909; the number of tenants paying rent by means of outdoor relief received from the Poor Law guardians; and the number and gross acreage of non-residential grass farms on the estate; and, in view of the congested condition of this estate and the public importance of a proper settlement of it, he can say when this information will be available and will give it in this House before the adoption of any scheme of settlement; and (2) whether the police have reported the threats of the ranchers on the estate of Lady Chapman, Killua, that they will retain the ranches in spite of people and Commissioners, though it were to cost them their lives; if he will say why, and on whose instructions, the police report inflammatory language when used on behalf of congested people and not this language of the ranchers; and, having regard to the effect of such language in a congested area, whether he will give an assurance that no settlement of this estate will be attempted but one devoting all the non-residential grass land, so far as it will go, to the relief of the congestion of the estate, in accordance with the Statutes?
§ The CHIEF SECRETRAY for IRELAND (Mr. Birrell)The Estates Commissioners have no knowledge of any proceedings for sale of this estate other than the proceedings for the sale of the property to them which were instituted on 1922 the 18th August, 1908. In dealing with the estate the Commissioners will act in accordance with the provisions of the Land Purchase Acts and the Rules and Regulations made thereunder. The police inform me that no such threats were made use of, nor did the parties who expect portions of the grasslands use any intimidating language as suggested.
§ Mr. GINNELLWill the right hon. Gentleman answer the question as to whether non-residential grasslands shall only be devoted to the relief of congestion on this Killua estate?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe question is put on the assumption that the delay is due to a change in the proposals for purchase. That is not so. The estate will be dealt with in the ordinary course.
§ Mr. GINNELLWill the Chief Secretary say under what Act and Section this estate is being sold, and whether it is to be dealt with as a congested district?
§ Mr. BIRRELLI must ask for notice.
§ 10. Mr. PATRICK MEEHANasked the Chief Secretary the date on which, and the holding and estate from which, Michael Murphy, who was lately provided by the Estates Commissioners with a holding on the Thompson estate, Kilcoke, Queen's County, alleged he was evicted?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe Estates Commissioners inform me that Michael Murphy was evicted in 1901 from a holding at Knocklade, on the Cosby estate, Queen's County.
§ 11. Mr. PATRICK MEEHANasked if the Estates Commissioners are aware that Michael Murphy, whom they provided with a holding on the Thompson estate, Kilcoke, Queen's County, was not an evicted tenant, and that he actually sold his interest in the holding from which he alleged he was evicted; and whether, in view of the fact that there are many of the Luggacurren evicted tenants still unprovided, the Estates Commissioners will reconsider the question of granting this holding to Mr. Murphy?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe reply is in the negative.
§ 12. Mr. GINNELLasked why the Return of estates in the. Land Judge's Court, ordered by the House last Session, has 1923 not been issued; whether it has been prepared; and, if so, when it will be available?
§ Mr. BIRRELLI understand that this Return was circulated yesterday.
§ 22 Mr. PATRICK WHITEasked the right hon. Gentleman (1) how many purchase agreements have been lodged with the Estates Commissioners on behalf of the tenants on the estate of Lady Chapman, situate on the borders of counties Meath and Westmeath; the number of such agreements referring to holdings under five and ten acres in extent, respectively; and whether careful investigation will take place as to the nature of the tenure of some of the large holdings, so as to preclude the possibility of including grazing tenants who have no claim to any benefit under any of the Land Acts, in order that their portion of the estate may be treated as untenanted land and acquired for the uneconomic holders on the estate; (2) the entire acreage of the estate of Lady Chapman, the amount offered to the tenants by direct sale, and the amount offered to the Commissioners; and whether he can classify the number of holdings which might be termed grazing lettings and state the conditions and date of the leases under which they are held, the number of holdings which might be treated as genuine agricultural tenancies, the number of uneconomic holdings, and the average size of the latter; and (3) whether any untenanted land on the estate of Lady Chapman, of Killua Castle, situate partly in county Meath and partly in Westmeath, has been offered for sale to the Estates Commissioners; if so, has an offer been made for it; and whether any inquiry has been made into the size and conditions of the uneconomic holdings on the estate, and any steps taken to improve their condition?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThis property is not being sold by the owner direct to the tenants, and no purchase agreements signed by the parties have, therefore, been lodged with the Estates Commissioners. The owner has instituted proceedings for the sale of the property to the Commissioners under Section 6 of the Irish Land Act, 1903, and in dealing with it they will act in accordance with the provisions of the Land Purchase Acts and the Rules and; Regulations made thereunder. The property offered for sale to 1924 the Commissioners comprises some 3,900 acres, of which over 600 acres are untenanted lands in the occupation of the owner. The Commissioners have made an offer to purchase the property, which is under the consideration of the owner. At this stage of the negotiations it is not desirable to furnish the other particulars asked for in the questions.
§ Mr. WHITEWill the right hon. Gentleman consider whether this estate ought to be treated as a congested estate?
§ Mr. BIRRELLI will inquire of the Estates Commissioners on that point.
§ Mr. GINNELLIs the right hon. Gentleman aware whether this estate has or has not been inspected?
§ Mr. BIRRELLI should require notice of that question.
§ 28. Mr. O'MALLEYasked whether the Congested Districts Board has yet made an offer of purchase for the Higgins-M'Carthy estate, Townaleen, Connemara; and whether the landlord has expressed his willingness to sell his estate to the Congested Districts Board?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe Congested Districts Board have issued an offer for the purchase of the estate referred to, which has not so far been accepted.
§ 30. Mr. O'MALLEYasked whether the offer of the Congested Districts Board for the purchase of the St. Ledger Higgins-estate, Maam, Connemara, has been accepted; and, if not, why the offer has not been accepted?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe offer of the Congested Districts Board in land stock for this very small estate was not accepted, but the owner expressed his willingness to accept the amount in cash.
§ 31. Mr. O'MALLEYasked whether Messrs. O'Malley and Joyce, owners of the Raha estate, Connemara, have yet lodged their maps with the Congested Districts Board?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe maps and documents necessary for a preliminary inspection of this property with a view to a sale have not so far been lodged with the Congested Districts Board.
§ 47. Mr. NEWMANasked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the fact that the completion of land purchase in Ireland was promised in the Speech from the 1925 Throne in 1913, he will find time to allow a Second Reading to the measure introduced by the Chief Secretary in July of last year and satisfy himself by Debate in the House as to Irish opinion on the proposals contained in the Bill?
§ The PRIME MINISTER (Mr. Asquith)The Government are anxious to proceed with this Bill, and are not without hope that some general measures of agreement may be attained in regard to it. I cannot say more at present.