HC Deb 17 February 1914 vol 58 cc757-8
34. Mr. CASSEL

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether the valuation under the Finance (1909–10) Act, 1910, shows the number of freeholders in the Metropolitan borough of St. Pancras; and, if so, what is that number?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

The original valuation of the area to which the hon. Member refers has not been completed, and does not, in its present stage, contain the information desired.

Mr. CASSEL

Is it not the case that the only official information on this subject is the ground plan of the London County Council?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

That I do not know.

Mr. CASSEL

May I take it, then, that the right hon. Gentleman made his statement with regard to St. Pancras without knowing whether or not there was any official information?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

I made my statement on the authority of a local gentleman who knows the circumstances thoroughly well—[HON. MEMBERS: "Name!"]—and who has since challenged the hon. and learned Gentleman. I believe the hon. and learned Gentleman has, as usual, run away from that challenge.

Mr. CASSEL

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman, when he accuses me of run- ning away from the challenge, whether he has ever accepted my challenge that he should defend his own statement?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

The challenge was taken up by the gentleman on whose authority I made the statement, and who had original information on the subject. He has undertaken to defend the figures which he gave me. That has been recalled to the attention of the hon. and learned Gentleman, and—well, he has escaped.

Viscount HELMSLEY

Are we to take it that all the figures given by the right hon. Gentleman in all his statements are equally liable to be questioned, since they do not come from official figures?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

First of all, I demur to the statement of the Noble Lord that my figures are liable to be questioned, for the simple reason that in this case the gentleman who gave me the information has defended the figures, and they remain. If any other statements of mine are challenged—as I understand some may be this afternoon—I am prepared here and now to defend them.

Viscount HELMSLEY

Are we to understand that the right hon. Gentleman, speaking as a Minister of the Crown, used figures which are derived from information which is not official?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

Really, that is a preposterous way of putting it, even for the Noble Lord. Does he mean to suggest that no Minister of the Crown is to use any information by way of illustrating a proposition unless he gets it from official sources?

Viscount HELMSLEY

Not at all.

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