34. Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTTasked the hon. Member for St. George's-in-the-East, as representing the Insurance Commissioners, whether insurance agents who are employed to do the work of approved societies are partly paid for such services out of money voted by Parliament; and, if so, whether the House will now be informed what remuneration is paid to them for such services?
§ Mr. WEDGWOOD BENN (Lord of the Treasury)The Vote provides for the fixed statutory proportion of the funds for defraying the expenses incurred by approved societies and chargeable to their administration accounts and not for the remuneration of the employés of societies as such. The answer to the second part of the question is, therefore, in the negative. The rates of such remuneration are determined by the terms of employment made by societies with their employés and are not, nor are required to be, within the knowledge of the Commissioners.
Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTTCan the hon. Gentleman say why Members of the House are encouraged to interest themselves in the remuneration of doctors who 744 are paid 7s. 6d. per head of insured persons, but discouraged and every obstacle put in their way to interest themselves in the remuneration of agents who are paid only from 1s. to 1s. 6d. per head of insured persons?
Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTTIn order to encourage me, will he give me information with regard to the agents in the same way as information is given with regard to doctors?
§ Mr. BENNThis is not a matter which would be the proper subject of inquiry among societies by the Commissioners '
§ Mr. PRINGLEIs it not the general policy of the Government to see that all employés employed in connection with any Government undertaking are employed under fair conditions?
§ Mr. BENNThe employés of these societies are only in a very secondary degree paid out of public funds.
Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTTIs it not the case that the whole of the remuneration paid to those persons is paid out of money taken compulsorily from insured persons all over the country?
§ Mr. BENNNo, my hon. Friend is mistaken. Part of their time is paid for by a fund into which contributions are paid by the State.
35. Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTTasked whether the Insurance Commissioners have addressed any inquiry to any of the following approved societies, namely, the Prudential, the National Amalgamated, the Liverpool Victoria Legal, the Royal Liver, and the Scottish Legal, as to what remuneration is paid to the insurance agents employed to do their work in respect of such work; and whether any of these societies have refused or are unwilling to supply the information?
§ Mr. BENNThe answer to the first part of the question is in the negative; the second part does not, therefore, arise.
Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTTHas the hon. Gentleman any reason to believe that the approved societies desire to conceal the remuneration which they pay to their employés?
36. Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTTasked whether the Insurance Commissioners have received any information as to the remuneration which is paid to insurance agents who are employed to do the work of approved societies, in respect of such work; and, if so, on what ground this information is withheld from the House?
§ Mr. BENNThe Insurance Commissioners have not received information from approved societies' as to the rates of remuneration paid by them to their employés.
37. Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTTasked in what respects the position of local insurance committees differs from approved societies so as to make it proper to recommend that a Fair-Wages Clause should be inserted in contracts made by the insurance committees but not proper to recommend that a Fair-Wages Clause should be inserted in contracts made by approved societies; whether the determining factor in making the recommendation to the committees was that, although not Government Departments, they were nevertheless engaged in spending public money; and whether approved societies are likewise engaged in spending public money?
§ Mr. BENNAn approved society is defined by Section 23 of the National Insurance Act, 1911. In nearly every case the society, or the parent body of which it is a separate section, carries on other business than that of national insurance, and employs the organisation created for that other business for the purposes of national insurance. No comparison can, therefore, be made between these bodies and insurance committees, which are bodies created specially and solely in connection with the administration of certain benefits under the National Insurance Acts.
Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTTIs it not the case that the doctors who are on the panel obtain a large part of their remuneration and earnings for work other than insurance work on the panel?