§ 50. Mr. AMERYasked the Home Secretary whether the steps being taken to remove arms and ammunition from Armagh and Omagh to Dublin and Enniskillen, respectively, as mentioned in General Paget's letter, of 17th March, to the War Office, were carried out or countermanded; and if he will state what verbal or written instructions were given to General Paget in this connection?
§ Mr. McKENNANo, Sir, Sir A. Paget's instructions were to take the necessary steps to protect the arms and ammunition at the places referred to.
§ Mr. AMERYIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that Sir Arthur Paget did propose, and said he was beginning to remove the stores from those places to the other places?
§ Mr. AMERYIt is in a published answer. Will the right hon. Gentleman state whether a beginning of the removal of those stores was actually made, and if not when the countermanding order was sent?
§ Mr. McKENNAThat statement was made by Sir Arthur Paget in a letter to the Secretary of State, but before that letter arrived Sir Arthur Paget had himself come to London, and, consequently, the directions or instructions given to Sir Arthur Paget were given to him before that letter was received.
§ Mr. MOOREAm I to understand that letters sent in the post did not arrive as soon as the general himself?
§ Mr. McKENNAThat is so. The General, having written the letter himself, came to London and arrived at the War Office—I will not say before the letter was delivered at the War Office, but certainly before the letter was received and dealt with.
§ Mr. AMERYIs it not the fact that. Sir Arthur Paget said that the removal of those stores arc being proceeded with, 1624 that he had taken it in hand before he came over?
§ Mr. McKENNANo, Sir, the removal had not been begun. Sir Arthur Paget had given instructions, pending further instructions from London, that the ammunition should be packed. The packing had begun, but there had been no removal. Before the letter was received Sir Arthur Paget was instructed that the ammunition should not be removed, but that additional troops should be sent to the stations.
§ Mr. SPEAKERNotice should be given of any further questions.
§ 54. Mr. G. FABERasked the Home Secretary (1) who else, beside the Secretary of State for War and Sir Arthur Paget, was or were present at the interview on the 18th March and at the interview on the 19th March, at the War Office, between the Secretary of State for War and Sir A. Paget; and (2) whether he has yet ascertained whether Sir A. Paget made any note of the instructions given to him at the War Office at the interview on the 18th March, or at the interview on the 19th March; and can he say, or will he ascertain whether anyone else present at either of those interviews, and, if so, who, had or made any note of the said instructions?
§ Mr. McKENNAAt the meeting on the 18th the following Members of the Cabinet were present: The Secretary of State for War, the Secretary of State for India, the Chief Secretary for Ireland, the First Lord of the Admiralty, and the Attorney-General. The Chief of the Imperial General Staff, the Adjutant-General and sonic other officers were also present. At the meeting on the 19th Sir John French and Sir Spencer Ewart were present. No notes were kept of the discussions.
§ 59. Mr. G. FABERasked at what date the Army Council were informed of the instructions given to Sir A. Paget on the 18th and 19th March; whether verbally or in writing, and by whom; and is there any 1625 record in writing at the War Office of those instructions?
§ Mr. McKENNAI have nothing to add to the reply which was given to the hon. Gentleman last Tuesday.
§ Mr. G. FABERMay I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman is not under a misapprehension—he gave me no answer?
§ Sir REGINALD POLE-CAREWIs the right hon. Gentleman now in a position to state exactly what the instructions were that were given to Sir Arthur Paget?
§ Mr. McKENNAThe instructions were given on 14th March, and they have been published. The hon. and gallant Gentleman can see for himself what they were.
§ Sir R. POLE-CAREWI beg your pardon. I want the instructions on the 18th and 19th.
§ Mr. McKENNAI beg the hon. and gallant Gentleman's pardon. Would he put down a question?
104. Captain WILSONasked whether any instructions, either with regard to the options to be offered to officers or with regard to possible movements of troops from the Curragh, were given to the General Officer Commanding in Ireland in writing?
§ Mr. McKENNANo, Sir.
Captain WILSONAm I to understand that General Paget accepted instructions on this matter—which might have been of such far-reaching importance—without asking for them in writing or receiving them in writing?
§ Mr. McKENNAThe matter in question was quite a simple one. General Paget stated that the matter being so simple he did not think it necessary to take a note.
§ Lord CHARLES BERESFORDDoes the right hon. Gentleman consider it a simple matter for a general to ask officers whether they were going to obey his orders or not?
§ Mr. McKENNAIf the general proposes to put the question, I do not think that the question itself makes a great strain upon the memory.
§ Mr. RONALD M'NEILLWhen and under what circumstances did Sir Arthur Paget say it was so simple a matter that he did not require to take a note?
§ Mr. McKENNASir Arthur Paget recently visited London and saw the Prime Minister, and the hon. Gentleman will see in the reply that I then gave relating to the conversation which Sir Arthur Paget had with the Prime Minister the substance of what Sir Arthur Paget said.
§ Mr. R. M'NEILLDid he use such an expression?
§ Dr. CHAPPLEMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether it was not the prevalence of sinister rumours in the Press and on the platform for the past two years that made the question necessary?
§ Mr. JOYNSON-HICKSWas Sir Arthur Paget offered instructions in writing? The right hon. Gentleman says he declined them: was he offered them in writing?
§ Mr. McKENNANo, Sir.
§ Mr. JOYNSON-HICKSHow could he decline them?
§ Mr. McKENNAI never said he declined. [HON. MEMBERS: "It was quite unnecessary."]
§ 105. Mr. SANDYSasked where Colonel H. B. Williams, D.S.O., is carrying out his duties as General Staff Officer; and why, when his appointment as General Staff Officer, first grade, was announced in the "Gazette" of 24th March, it was described as a temporary appointment?
108. Major HOPEasked on what grounds the General Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Ireland, requested the services of a first-grade General Staff Officer instead of a second-grade Staff Officer; and why the appointment of Colonel H. B. Williams, D.S.O., in the "Gazette" of 24th March was only temporary?
109. MARQUESS of TULLIBARDINEasked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether the appointment of Colonel H. B. Williams to the General Staff in Ireland is an appointment allocated to war establishment only; will he say upon what other occasion such a proceeding has taken place in war time; under what Estimate and what Vote has the pay of this officer been shown; and whether any other officer has been recently attached to the staff in Ireland?
§ Mr. McKENNASir Arthur Paget asked for additions to his staff in the particular circumstances, and certain temporary appointments were made. There are several precedents for such temporary appointments in peace. Colonel Williams receives his pay under Vote 1 (b) of Army Estimates. The appointment was temporary because it was hoped that the special circumstances would be temporary.
§ Mr. SANDYSWhat were these special circumstances?
§ Mr. McKENNAThey have been fully related to the House.
MARQUESS of TULLIBARDINEIs it necessary to increase a peace establishment to a war establishment to remove a few arms?
§ Mr. McKENNAThere have been many precedents for such appointments in peace.
§ 111. Mr. CASSELasked the Under-Secretary of State for War why General Paget's reply to the letter of the 14th March, 1914, which is included in the White Paper, Cd. 7318, was not also included in that document?
§ Mr. McKENNASir Arthur Paget was seen at the War Office interview by the Secretary of State before the letter arrived and orally stated his views. When the letter arrived it was treated in the War Office as having been superseded by the conversation.
§ Mr. CASSELDoes the right hon. Gentleman suggest that if the original letter was relevant the reply to it was not relevant?
§ Mr. McKENNAI suggest that both the original letter and the reply were relevant, but unfortunately, and I much regret the fact, the letter was considered to be superseded in the War Office by the interview with General Paget, and in consequence did not come before the attention of the Secretary of State.
113. Mr. F. HALL (Dulwich)asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether, in any written or oral instructions given to Sir A. Paget on which he based his remarks to the officers in his command as to serving in Ulster, it was made clear to him that this service only entitled the maintenance of order, and that the movement of troops was not intended as a military demonstration to overawe Ulster or to provoke the people of that district to acts which would justify the use of force?
§ Mr. McKENNAI have already more than once stated the instructions which were given to Sir Arthur Paget, and I have nothing to add.
§ Mr. JAMES HOPEMay I ask why it was when General Gough asked whether he and his officers would be called upon to undertake the initiation of operations against Ulster Sir Arthur Paget was not able to assure them?
§ Mr. McKENNAI am really unable to answer the question which the hon. Member puts. It is impossible for me to say what was in General Paget's mind.
§ Mr. JAMES HOPEThe question was why Sir Arthur Paget was unable to assure these officers that nothing beyond the maintenance of order would be expected of them?
§ Mr. McKENNAThe hon. Gentleman had better put his question down.