HC Deb 06 May 1913 vol 52 cc2005-10

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House do now adjourn."—[Mr. Gulland.]

Mr. CHARLES BATHURST

I desire to call the attention of the House to the attitude which the Development Commissioners have taken up in respect of the application made by the Meteorological Office for a Grant out of the Development Fund in order to provide daily forecasts to agriculturists and others desiring to know what the weather is likely to be during the day of the forecast. I put a question to the Secretary of the Treasury at Question time to-day. I asked him— Whether an application was made in 1911 by the committee of the Meteorological Office to the Development Commissioners for a grant out of the Development Fund to effect the wider distribution by telegraph of the daily weather forecasts for the benefit of agriculturalists; whether, although the advantage to farmers of such information was admitted, the grant was refused by the Commissioners on the footing that the general public, and not merely the agricultural community, would benefit thereby; and, if so, under what section of the Development and Road Improvement Funds Act, 1909, do they seek to justify such objection? Attention called to the fact that forty Members were not present. House counted, forty Members being found present——

Mr. C. BATHURST

This is the extraordinary answer I received:— The application of the Meteorological Office was refused by the Development Commissioners on the ground that a scheme which was tantamount to a general extension of the activities of that office, and had no special or essential reference to the agricultural or fishing industries, was not one which came within the scope of the Development and Road Improvement Funds Act. This view is based on the terms of Section [...] of the Act, where a list is given of the purposes to which the Development Fund may be applied. The scheme submitted by the Meteorological Office appeared to the Commissioners to fall within the description given above. I gather from that extraordinary answer that the Commissioners lay it down that a Grant, if made, must have special or essential reference to the agricultural or fishing industries and must not involve a general extension of the activities of the institution applying for it. Section 1, Sub-section (1) of the Act, says:— The Treasury may, upon the recommendation of the Development Commissioners" … make Grants out of the Development Fund— for any of the following purposes. Those purposes include aiding and developing agriculture in various specified ways, and finally— by the adoption of any other means which appear calculated to develop agriculture and rural industries. Then comes a long list of objects which certainly cannot be described as having special or essential reference to agriculture or fishing industries, including forestry, the reclamation and drainage of land, the general improvement of rural transport, not necessarily for purely agricultural purposes, the construction and improvement of harbours, the construction and improvement of inland navigations, and, finally, for any other purpose calculated to promote the economic development of the United Kingdom. If the provision of these weather forecasts—which, by the way, are provided by the State in several countries to-day, notably in the United States of America—does not aid the development of agriculture, and is not a means by which agricultural and rural industries may appear to be aided, it is a purpose that is calculated to promote the economic development of the United Kingdom. I have some valuable evidence upon this subject—first of all, from the Weather Bureau of the United States—which professes in its last report to save the country many times the amount of the Government Grant, which amounts there to one million dollars annually. It goes on to say:— Fifteen million dollars were saved by one forecast alone. Dr. Shaw, the director of our British Meteorological Office, says:— We have no doubt that if anyone ordered his goings as regarded the weather, year in and year out, according to the forecasts—which are substantially correct nine times out of ten—he would find himself better off than if he had paid no heed to the weather, or trusted to the experience of the weatherwise shepherd. With intelligent and indispensable co-operation meteorology may eventually, not only help the farmers in saving their crops, but what is perhaps of more importance, in also improving them. He adds:— It is time for the bones of meteorological statistics, dry as they may appear, to become a fertiliser like phosphates or nitrals, and in their own way to help towards adding a shilling per acre to the average earnings of British land, or say £2,000,000 to the annual value of its total produce. If that is not developing rural industry I do not know what is. The State of Mexico goes even further than the United States of America. There the postage stamps are all obliterated with an official forecast of the weather for the following day. Every farmer in the United States is able to obtain for the nominal fee of a shilling, which really means free of cost, daily forecasts of the weather, upon which most of these farmers act with very great advantage to themselves. I want to draw attention to a letter in which the controller of our Meteorological Office refers to the attitude of the Development Commissioners. He says, in writing to the secretary of the Melbourne St. Andrew's Farmers' Club, who in the most enlightened way have brought this matter before the country:— The committee are anxious to secure the wider distribution by telegraph of the daily weather forecasts for the benefit of agriculturists and the public generally by any means open to them. There is, however, no provision for the payment of the costs of telegrams conveying forecasts to country telegraph offices which, in accordance with the principle of accounting laid down by Government in this matter, are chargeable against the account of this office as sender, at the same rate as if the office were a private person. This makes it difficult for the office to give the system of forecasting an effective trial, as, for example, by making a daily distribution to all the post offices in one county for a year, because, in order to provide the cost of the telegrams without a special grant for the purpose, it would be necessary to suppress part of the current work of the office. That course is again beset with difficulty, because the current work of the office supplies the material and the experience of meteorology upon which the practice of forecasting is based. Then they set out the substance of my question and the reason which the Development Commissioners gave for not acceeding to their application, namely, because the reasons offered in its favour include advantages to the general public and not exclusively to agriculture and fisheries. I should like to know what basis there is for founding the fitness of Grants out of the Development Fund, first of all, upon whether it will benefit the public outside the agricultural community, or whether, as is suggested by the right hon. Gentleman, it is an improper way to apply the money if any industry other than agriculture and fisheries is benefited. It is entirely contrary to the express provisions and to the evident intention of the Development and Road Improvement Funds Act that these Grants should be limited in the way the right hon. Gentleman suggests. It is high time we in Great Britain adopted the same course that other and more enlighened countries are now adopting, notably the United States, in providing farmers, at public cost, with this information, which will be of invaluable benefit to them, particularly in hay and corn harvests, and save millions of money which are now expended, and time which is now wasted in waiting for weather conditions which are not actually realised in fact.

The FINANCIAL SECRETARY to the TREASURY (Mr. Masterman)

I have no kind of controversy with the hon. Gentleman in connection with his enthusiasm for meteorological information to be supplied or anything but admiration for the knowledge which he shows in this as in other similar matters of what is being done to assist agriculture in other countries. But I have a controversy with him in bringing this question up against me on the adjournment in my position, and imagining that I have in the least degree any control over the action of the Development Commissioners. I provide through the ordinary apparatus of question and answer such information as I am able to obtain from the Development Commission out of courtesy to Members of the House of Commons, and I think that they are willing to give it, but if the hon. Member remembers the genesis of the Development Commission he will remember that the Act specially arranged for such a condition of affairs that I should not be pressed or anyone representing the Treasury in the way in which I have been pressed by the hon. Member to-night. The original idea of the Commission was that the funds should be more or less under the control of the Government or the Department. The immediate criticism made was that other persons who were specially enthusiastic about such things as meteorological investigation, or who specially desired their constituencies to be attended to, would bring pressure upon the Department in order to get the Development Commission to give Grants to their special work, and the result would be that the amount which the Development Commission has, and which it can only extend by taking a wide survey over the whole necessities of agriculture and fisheries, would be more or less dissipated in response to pressure which it could not resist in one special direction or another.

It being half-past Eleven o'clock, MR. SPEAKER adjourned the House, without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order. Adjourned at Half after Eleven o'clock.