§ 7. Lord CHARLES BERESFORDasked the difference in the rates of wages of the trades employed in the Royal dockyards and private dockyards, individualising the different trades?
§ 8. Lord C. BERESFORDasked whether the rates of pay in the Royal dockyards were based on the payment given to men working at similar trades outside; and if he can state the date when a scale of comparison was drawn up?
§ The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the ADMIRALTY (Dr. Macnamara)The rates for the hired men in the principal trades in His Majesty's dockyards are as follow: Boilermakers, coppersmiths, fitters, founders, and pattern makers have a standard rate of 36s. a week, and a maximum rate of 40s. a week, with "special" rates the maximum of which is 42s. a week in the case of coppersmiths, 45s. in the cases of the boilermakers, founders, and pattern makers, and 48s. a week in the case of the fitters. The standard rate for the shipwrights is 36s., for the joiners and plumbers 34s. 6d., for the bricklayers 34s., for the smiths 36s., with "special" rates the maximum of which is 45s. For painters the average is 32s., with a maximum of 34s., and a "special" rate maximum of 35s. 6d. To these wages should be added the value of certain privileges which dockyard employés enjoy, as compared with the generality of outside employment. Outside rates vary in different parts of the country. The Noble Lord will find them pretty fully set out in Command Paper 6054.
§ 9. Lord C. BERESFORDasked the First Lord of the Admiralty if there is unrest among men employed in the Royal dockyards; if so, will he state to the House the cause of the unrest; and cause a Committee of Inquiry to be formed to look into the question?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAIn addition to the requests put forward at the annual hearing of petitions, a number of representations have been made by dockyard employés in favour of an increase in wages. These representations call attention to the increased cost of living and rental charges, and point to outside wages, which, as a result of the great prosperity of the shipbuilding industry particularly, are now at high-water level up to date. The Noble Lord is aware that the fullest facility is given year by year for the men to state their case by petition, enforced by personal representation, to representatives of the Board who visit the yards for the purpose of hearing the men's petitions. Since last year this duty has devolved upon me, and I have already heard the petitions at Devonport, Portsmouth, Chatham, Deptford, the West India Docks, and Dover. I have still to hear the petitions at Portland, Pembroke Dock, and Haulbowline. These I hope to complete shortly. The Board will thereafter consider the requests put forward by the men and announce its decisions. Whilst I cannot anticipate those decisions, I can assure the Noble Lord that every effort will be made to secure their early publication.
§ Lord C. BERESFORDIs there any danger of a strike in any of the great dockyards?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAI sincerely hope not. We have an annual review of the wages paid. The greatest care and patience are taken in the hearing of the petitions, and we give annual decisions. Those for this year will be promulgated as soon as possible.
§ Lord C. BERESFORDIs the right hon. Gentleman aware of the fact that the men have got it into their heads that a very large number of these petitions always receive the same answer, "not permissible," and that no explanation is given as to why this is so?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAIt does occur that the phrase "not acceded to" is repeated a good many times. That arises from the men in every yard putting forward the same petition in various classes year after year, and in certain cases they are not within our jurisdiction. As an illustration, I may mention that the men have asked to be superannuated on the higher pay. That is a matter of Statute interpretated by the Treasury, and is not within our jurisdiction. Therefore, we have 1017 no alternative but to use the phrase, "not acceded to," and that is multiplied again and again in a number of cases; but we desire to treat those men sympathetically, and we listen with great care to their petitions.
§ Mr. O'GRADYWhat did the right hon. Gentleman mean by saying that the wages in the shipyards are at high-water mark owing to the prosperity in the shipping trade? Is he not aware of the fact that these rates of wages are the result of contract between the Shipbuilding Employers' Federation and the workmen's federation, and there is no question about high-water mark? It is normal rate of wages, and is considerably higher than in the dockyards.
§ Dr. MACNAMARAThe hon. Member must be aware that in the shipbuilding industry wages have gone up successively in recent years. In using the phrase "high-water mark," I do not wish to use it offensively, but it is a fact.
§ Sir C. KINLOCH-COOKEDoes the right hon. Gentleman mean the House to infer that the phrase "not acceded to" is only used in reference to matters that are dependent upon Statute?
§ Dr. MACNAMARANot at all. I gave that as an illustration of the use of the phrase. As a result of last year's petitions we increased wages by £42,000, and since 1906 we have increased our rates charge by £141,000.
§ 10. Sir C. KINLOCH-COOKEasked the rates of pay sanctioned by the Lords of the Admiralty to men working in Royal dockyards, respectively, as fitters, riveters, boiler-makers, pattern-makers, founders, smiths, coppersmiths, shipwrights, and joiners, and the corresponding rates of pay paid for similar class of work in private yards?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAI have given the weekly rates of wages paid in His Majesty's dockyards to fitters, boiler-makers, pattern-makers, founders, smiths, coppersmiths, shipwrights, and joiners in a reply to-day to a question by the Noble Lord the Member for Portsmouth, whom I have referred to Command Paper No. 6054 in regard to the wages paid in private yards. There are no men rated as riveters in the dockyards. Mechanics who have been trained as riveters in the outside trade are entered in the boiler department as boiler-makers. The men engaged on ship 1018 riveting work are rated as skilled labourers, and are paid according to their ability and service within the scale for that class, which for hired men is as follows: Minimum, 23s.; maximum, 28s.; with "special" rates, the maximum of which is 31s.
§ Sir C. KINLOCH-COOKEWill the right hon. Gentleman answer the last part of my question as to corresponding rates of pay for similar work in private yards?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAIn private yards riveters are treated as tradesmen, but our classification gives more continuous employment than is possible in private yards.
Mr. FREDERICK HALL (Dulwich)Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that all those men in private yards have for the last three years been employed from 1st January to 31st December?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAYes, but in 1908 22 per cent. of shipwrights were unemployed.
§ 13. Sir C. KINLOCH-COOKEasked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he is aware that working overtime in the Royal dockyards has for some time past been carried on at an unusual rate; that dissatisfaction has arisen in the Royal dockyards on this account; and whether he can see his way to effect some modification in this respect which shall include cessation from work on Sundays except under very special circumstances?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAIt is the fact that recently an abnormal amount of overtime has been asked for in the yards, but I am not aware that this circumstance has led to any general dissatisfaction. A detailed statement of the amount of overtime worked in each yard is submitted to the Board week by week, and the matter is carefully watched. Our general rule is that overtime shall be treated as an exceptional expedient.
§ Sir C. KINLOCH-COOKEWould the right hon. Gentleman answer my question with regard to work on Sundays?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAThat would only occur in cases of extra pressure, and the men would receive special pay for that day.