§ 60. Major ANSTRUTHER-GRAYasked whether the fishermen in certain localities 1030 in Cornwall are exempted from the provisions of the National Insurance Act; and, if so, where and under what conditions?
§ Mr. MASTERMANYes, Sir. The Insurance Commissioners have issued a Special Order under paragraph (k) of Part II. of the First Schedule to the National Insurance Act, excepting from the scope of the compulsory provisions of Part I. of the Act the employment of share fishermen sailing from port within the limits of the ports of Penzance and St. Ives as defined by Order in Council where such fishermen are entitled to the benefit of a certain local custom described in the Special Order. The Special Order is No. 922 in the series of Statutory Rules and Orders, 1912.
§ Major ANSTRUTHER-GRAYWill Scotsmen working under the same conditions receive the same treatment?
§ Mr. MASTERMANI do not know of any reason why they should not if they wish for it.
§ 61. Major ANSTRUTHER-GRAYasked whether share fishermen, where there is no contract of service and where they work on the principle of joint adventurers, sharing the losses as well as the gains, come within the meaning of the Amendments passed by the House of Commons on the 21st November, 1911; and, if so, why are the share fishermen on the Fife coast not exempt?
63. Major HOPEasked the Secretary to the Treasury if he has received a petition from the share fishermen residing at Musselburgh, Midlothian, praying that they may be exempted from compulsory insurance under the provisions of Part II. (k) of the First Schedule, National Insurance Act; and whether, in view of the fact that they are under no binding contract of service and only receive a share of profits, if any, he will advise the Scottish Insurance Commissioners to grant the desired exemption?
§ Mr. MASTERMANI propose to take questions 61 and 63 together. I am informed by the Scottish Insurance Commissioners that an application for a Special Order under paragraph (k) of Part II. of the First Schedule to the Act has been received from the share fishermen at Fisherrow, and is at present under investigation. If it is shown that the 1031 fishermen at Fife or at Fisherrow are not employed under a contract of service, they are outside the compulsory provisions of the Act, and a Special Order will be unnecessary. The question whether they are so employed depends upon the circumstances of the employment in each case. The Commissioners propose to submit the position of share fishermen and net share fishermen to the Court of Session for a decision in the matter under Section 66 of the Act.
§ Major ANSTRUTHER-GRAYWould it not be possible to give these fishermen the benefit of the Amendment passed on the 21st November, 1911, instead of submitting them to prosecution?
§ Mr. MASTERMANThe first thing is to find out whether they come under the Act at all. You cannot issue a Special Order dealing with them if they are not under the Act.
§ Major ANSTRUTHER-GRAYBut the right hon. Gentleman is prosecuting these men.
§ Mr. MASTERMANNo.
§ Major ANSTRUTHER-GRAYI will give the names.
§ Mr. MASTERMANI should be glad to receive the information.
§ Mr. BOOTHIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that these share fishermen claim with regard to the Workmen's Compensation Act that they are under a contract of service, and with regard to the National Insurance Act that they are not, that they are joint adventurers?
Major HOPEThe fishermen about whom I asked, do not come under the Workmen's Compensation Act.
§ Mr. MASTERMANIt is purely a matter of legal decision, and the sooner we can obtain that legal decision the better. I agree that no prosecutions ought to be instituted until that decision is obtained.
§ Mr. JOHN WARDIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that these men are sometimes engaged on ordinary work on shore? That ought to be taken into consideration when the subject is being dealt with.