HC Deb 17 June 1913 vol 54 cc348-54

Motion made and Question proposed, "That this House do now Adjourn."— [Mr. Gulland.]

Earl WINTERTON

I desire to raise a question of some importance to the Territorial Force in this country, particularly in London. However much it may be a subject of mirth to hon. Members below the Gangway, it is not a subject of mirth to those who care for the defence of the country. Two months ago the announcement was made of the intention of His Majesty to hold a review of the London Territorial Force on Wimbledon Common. At the time the announcement was made it was stated that there would be a review of all the units in the London Territorial district, mounted as well as Infantry. About a month or six weeks ago it was suddenly announced that the venue was changed to Hyde Park, and a short time after that announcement it was announced that in consequence of the change of venue it would not be possible to have mounted troops owing to the fact that the park regulations did not allow of mounted troops being in Hyde Park. I do not know how far that statement is correct. I should have imagined that a review by the Sovereign annuls any regulations made by the Park. It seems to be a monstrous thing when the King wishes to review his own troops that any regulations of a Royal Park should not be got over. I seem to remember at the time of the Coronation and other events of that kind mounted troops have encamped in Hyde Park, and certainly with far more damage than would be done by any such review. The real reason for the change of venue, the War Secretary, in response to numerous questions, has refused to disclose. The real reason for the change of venue was firstly, that there was no opportunity to the troops for practising the evolutions necessary for a review of the kind, and that most of those mounted troops have no full dress uniform and, most important of all, the quality of the horses would be as bad as the quality of the men was good. It would have been an eye-opener as to the horses the mounted troops are expected to use in time of peace and war. I desire to ask why all those things were not thought of before the original announcement was made that the review was going to be held and why Lord Esher, who is chairman of the London Territorial Association, was not consulted, as proved by the letter which he subsequently wrote to the papers, and an extract from which I will read. In giving the reasons why it was impossible for the review to be held, he said that it was physically impossible for the men to get home after work, change their clothes, mount horses they had never seen, and be on Wimbledon Common ready to be inspected by the King. To attempt to do so was to court failure and ridicule. I desire to ask why the general officers responsible for the Territorial Force have not taken the trouble to consult Lord Esher, and why the Army Council did not take the trouble to learn the real state of affairs before making the announcement and putting the London. Territorials in the ridiculous position in which they are now. To cap all, although they are not to be allowed to attend the review mounted, every question addressed to the War Secretary to ascertain whether they are to attend dismounted has failed to get a reply. I desire to ask whether the mounted brigades are to attend the review dismounted or whether not a single mounted unit is to attend the review by His Majesty the King. In either case a most unfair slur will have been cast on the Territorial Force. The keenness and patriotism of the London Territorial Force, whatever the disadvantages of its training may be, yields to that of no other portion of the force in the country. It is not their fault that they have been put in this position; the fault lies entirely with the War Office and with the general officers who are responsible. As one who has been an officer of the Yeomanry for some ten years and a member of the Territorial Force Association, I may say that this question has caused the utmost dissatisfaction among members of the Territorial Force, both officers and men, throughout the country. I cannot help thinking that even the oil-skin of self-complacency with which the right hon.. Gentleman invariably covers himself, wilt be penetrated by the rain of criticism caused by this action. I do not hope to get any satisfaction from him, because if the shades of Bismarck, Moltke, Welling ton, Caesar, and any other generals you like to name returned to this earth and. were formed into a committee to advise the right hon. Gentleman on military matters, he would not accept their opinion, but would immediately state to the House that the opinion of Sir Ian Hamilton and himself, or rather the opinion of himself and Sir Ian Hamilton, was greater than that of' all those generals combined. I desire to, ask what the right hon. Gentleman is going to do to get the London Territorial Mounted Brigade out of the ridiculous position in which the negligence of his, own Department has placed them?

The SECRETARY of STATE for WAR (Colonel Seely)

When His Majesty the King requested me to say' that he would review the London Division of the Territorial Force it was obvious that it would be most convenient to hold that review in London. On the other hand, the difficulty arose that it was impossible to have the Mounted units in the only place in London where such review could be conveniently held, namely, Hyde Park, owing to regulations which for many years have laid down that reviews of this kind cannot have mounted troops taking part. That has always been held. It is a well understood rule. For reasons obvious to those who understand the way in which reviews must be conducted, Hyde Park is a place where, apart from the cutting up of the ground, it is almost impossible to find space for a review of mounted units, and no such reviews have been held. It was, therefore, thought that the best plan would be to attempt to hold the London review in the county of Surrey, on Wimbledon Common. There were many objections to this course, notably the fact that it is very far from many of the London units; but in order to get the mounted units there, it was thought that we would face the inconveniences—which the Territorials would gladly have done—so as to have the mounted units present. It appeared that we had not taken into full account the exceedingly busy season. On the 5th of July, in order to have a satisfactory review of the mounted troops, it would have been necessary that the horses should have been provided at least two days beforehand. This would have involved the giving of two days' leave to the men who were to take part in the review. Many of the men who belonged to the mounted units could not very well be spared by their employers without the greatest inconvenience, and it was represented to me that it would really be almost impossible to arrange for due time being given for the parade of the mounted arms. It would have been possible to have held this review by bringing the horses forward at the very last moment. No suggestion has been made that sufficient horses are not available.

Earl WINTERTON

I spoke of the quality being insufficient.

Colonel SEELY

The Noble Lord has made a suggestion as to the insufficient quality of the horses, but he has left me absolutely no time in which to deal with that, except to say that that also is a ridiculous misstatement. If he doubts the quality of the horses of the Mounted Brigrade in London, I invite him to attend the manæuvres, where he will be among distinguished company, and where he will find the mounted troops in training. The real difficulty was that we found, as I have said, that the employers could not give the men sufficient time so that due practice might take place to prepare for the review. We have reason to know that even with the most highly trained troops in the world, as we saw last Saturday, there is a certain risk in mounted reviews of all kinds. Directly it was found impossible for the mounted units to parade at the review it was obviously more convenient to hold the review, as was proposed, in Hyde Park. That has now been arranged, and I am sure every one in this House is grateful to the Sovereign that he has undertaken to hold this Review. I hope every one in this House will decide to make a point of seeing how well the Territorial Force, or how ill—I believe they will say how well—can perform the simple evolutions of a review. A very large number of men will be paraded. In regard to the specific point raised by the Noble Lord we have found that the mounted units are most anxious to parade and they will parade dismounted before His Majesty. I again put it to those who wish to see the units mounted to attend the manævres, where every arrangement will be made for them to inspect the horse. I hope the review will in every way be a success. The misstatements of the Noble Lord, no doubt made in error—

Earl WINTERTON

What misstatements?

Colonel SEELY

It would take me too long to go through them.

Earl WINTERTON

I made no misstatements.

Colonel SEELY

On the contrary I repeat it, the Noble Lord made a series of misstatements; the first was that the general officers were to blame for not knowing their own minds. They knew their own minds from the start, and directly they found the mounted units would not parade they decided, and I know they were perfectly right, that Hyde Park was the best place. The next misstatement was that the quality of the horses was such that we did not wish them to be seen. That was a gross misstatement of the Noble Lord without a shadow of foundation, and I hope he will at once withdraw it after he has attended the manæuvres and seen the quality of the horses.

It being half-past Eleven of the clock, Mr. SPEAKER adjourned the House without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order.

Adjourned at Half after Eleven o'clock.