HC Deb 03 June 1913 vol 53 cc770-2
31. Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTT

asked whether the vacant clerkships in the Scottish prison service which were recently advertised represent a new rank in the service; whether the institution of this rank will bar the way to promotion for the present store warders; whether a store warder may be appointed a clerk; and whether any age limit has been fixed for candidates for clerkships which will prevent store warders who are over the ago of thirty from being promoted to be clerks?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

The answer to the first part of the question is in the negative; the clerkships represent the revival of a former post, not the establishment of a new one. The present store warders are not excluded from the possibility of promotion if they can pass the examination, are otherwise suitable, and are not over forty years of age.

32. Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTT

asked what is the objection to promoting store warders in the Scottish prisons to be clerks instead of advertising for candidates for the new rank of prison clerks?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

Experience has satisfied the Prison Commissioners that it is not in the interests of the public service expedient to confine clerical appointments to a class whose training has not as a rule been such as to qualify them for the conduct of the business side of prison administration; and this is the reason for the change proposed.

Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTT

Can the right hon. Gentleman explain how it is that in the English prison service these duties are performed by the same person?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

There is a considerable difference between the English and Scotch prisons.

Mr. WATT

Are the store warders giving satisfaction as clerks?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

I think my last answer has dealt with that point.

33. Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTT

asked whether the maximum wage for store warders in the Scottish prisons is now £110, together with allowances amounting to £15 7s. per annum; whether the maximum wage for the new rank of prison clerks is £140 per annum; whether in the English prisons the duties now apportioned between prison clerks and prison store warders in Scotland are performed by one rank, namely, the clerk and school master rank; and whether he will take steps to obtain for the Scottish prison staff the same advantages in this respect as are enjoyed by the English prison staff?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

The answers to the first and second parts of my hon. Friend's question are in the affirmative, except that he has apparently overlooked the existence of a class of head store warders with maximum salary of £150 and allowances valued at £23 18s. I regret I cannot enter into comparisons between the relative scales and duties in the English and Scottish prison service in view of the diversity of conditions.

Mr. WATT

Is not the principle of the right hon. Gentleman to advance the servants already in the employment of the Department instead of embarking upon new assistants?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

I have explained in the answer I have given what the complaint was.

34. Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTT

asked whether the store warders in Scottish prisons have to work twenty-nine hours more per fortnight than warders employed in clerical duties in English prisons; whether in English prisons promotion from Grade II. to Grade I. in the clerk and schoolmaster rank is automatic on reaching the maximum in Grade I., while in Scottish prisons the promotion of store warders from Class II. to Class I. is by selection; and whether he proposes to take any steps to place the Scottish and English prison staffs on an equal footing in this respect?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

I must remind my hon. Friend that the English and the Scottish Prison services are separate and distinct, and that while the Scottish Prison Commissioners, of course, watch developments in the English service, they administer their own Department with a view not to identity of conditions in England and Scotland, but to the efficiency of the service in Scotland. I regret I cannot enter into the detailed comparisons between English and Scottish conditions referred to in the question. It is not proposed to take action as suggested.

Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTT

Does the right hon. Gentleman not think that it is detrimental to the public interest in Scotland that officials performing similar duties should have much better terms in England than in Scotland?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

I do not admit that that is so.

Mr. WATT

I give notice that I shall call attention to this matter on the Scottish Estimates.