§ This Act may be cited as the Plural Voting Act, 1913.
Captain CRAIGI beg to move, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again," but the Chairman withheld his assent, and declined then to put that Question.
| Division No. 167.] | AYES. | [5.41 a.m. |
| Abraham, William (Dublin, Harbour) | Allen, Rt. Hon. Charles P. (Stroud) | Beauchamp, Sir Edward |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Amery, L. C. M. S. | Bonn, W. W. (T. Hamlets, St. George) |
| Adamson, William | Arnold, Sydney | Bentham, G. J. |
| Addison, Dr. Christopher | Baker, H. T. (Accrington) | Black, Arthur W. |
| Agar-Robartes, Hon. T. C. R. | Barnes, George N. | Boland, John Pius |
| Allen, Arthur A. (Dumbartonshire) | Barton, William | Booth, Frederick Handel |
Mr. PEASEclaimed, "That the Question, 'that the Clause stand part of the Bill,' be now put." [HON. MEMBERS: "Scandal; a disgrace."]
§ Question put, "That the Question 'that the Clause stand part of the Bill,' be now put."
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 204; Noes, 96.
| Bowerman, Charles W. | Hinds, John | O'Sullivan, Timothy |
| Boyle, Daniel (Mayo, North) | Hobhouse, Rt. Hon. Charles E. H. | Palmer, Godfrey Mark |
| Brady, P. J. | Hogge, James Myles | Parker, James (Halifax) |
| Brocklehurst, W. B. | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | Pease, Rt. Hon. Joseph A. (Rotherham) |
| Brunner, John F. L. | Hughes, Spencer Leigh | Phillips, John (Longford, S.) |
| Bryce, J. Annan | John, Edward Thomas | Pointer, Joseph |
| Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Jones, Edgar (Merthyr Tydvil) | Pollard, Sir George H. |
| Cawley, Sir Frederick (Prestwich) | Jones, H. Haydn (Merioneth) | Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H. |
| Cawley, Harold T. (Lancs., Heywood) | Jones, J. Towyn (Carmarthen, East) | Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) |
| Chancellor, H. G. | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire) | Priestley, Sir Arthur (Grantham) |
| Chapple, Dr. William Allen | Jones, W. S. Glyn- (T. H'mts., Stepney) | Priestley, Sir W. E. (Bradford, E.) |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Jowett, Frederick William | Primrose, Hon. Neil James |
| Clough, William | Joyce, Michael | Pringle, William M. R. |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | Keating, Matthew | Raffan, Peter Wilson |
| Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Kellaway, Frederick George | Rea, Rt. Hon. Russell (South Shields) |
| Crooks, William | Kelly, Edward | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough) |
| Crumley, Patrick | Kilbride, Denis | Reddy, Michael |
| Cullinan, John | King, Joseph | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) |
| Dalziel, Rt. Hon. Sir J. H. (Kirkcaldy) | Lambert, Richard (Wilts, Cricklade) | Redmond, William (Clare, E.) |
| Davies, E. William (Eifion) | Lardner, James C. R. | Rodmond, William Archer (Tyrone, E.) |
| Davies, Timothy (Lincs., Louth) | Lawson, Sir W. (Cumb'rld, Cockerm'th) | Rendall, Athelstan |
| Dawes, James Arthur | Leach, Charles | Richardson, Thomas (Whitehaven) |
| Delany, William | Levy, Sir Maurice | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) |
| Denman, Hon. Richard Douglas | Lewis, Rt. Hon. John Herbert | Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) |
| Devlin, Joseph | Lundon, Thomas | Robertson, John M. (Tyneside) |
| Donelan, Captain A. | Lyell, Charles Henry | Robinson, Sidney |
| Doris, William | Lynch, A. A. | Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke). |
| Duffy, William J. | Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) | Roche, Augustine (Louth, N.) |
| Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) | McGhee, Richard | Rowlands, James |
| Elverston, Sir Harold | Macnamara, Rt. Hon. Dr. T. J. | Rowntree, Arnold |
| Esmonde, Dr. John (Tipperary, N.) | MacNeill, J. G. Swift (Donegal, South) | Russell, Rt. Hon. Thomas W. |
| Esmonde, Sir Thomas (Wexford, N.) | Macpherson, James Ian | Samuel, Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland) |
| Essex, Sir Richard Walter | MacVeagh, Jeremiah | Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees) |
| Falconer, J. | M'Curdy, Charles Albert | Scanlan, Thomas |
| Fenwick, Rt. Hon. Charles | McKenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald | Scott, A. MacCallum (Glas., Bridgeton) |
| Ferens, Rt. Hon. Thomas Robinson | M'Laren, Hon. F.W.S. (Lincs., Spalding) | Seely, Rt. Hon. Colonel J. E. B. |
| Ffrench, Peter | Marshall, Arthur Harold | Sheehy, David |
| Field, William | Meagher, Michael | Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir John Allsebrook |
| Fienness, Hon. Eustace Edward | Meehan, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.) | Smith, Albert (Lancs., Clitheroe) |
| Fitzgibbon, John | Meehan, Patrick J. (Queen's Co., Leix) | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.) |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | Middlebrook, William | Strauss, Edward A. (Southwark, West) |
| France, G. A. | Millar, James Duncan | Sutherland, John E. |
| Gladstone, W. G. C. | Molloy, M. | Sutton, John E. |
| Goldstone, Frank | Mond, Rt. Hon. Sir Alfred | Tennant, Harold John |
| Greig, Colonel J. W. | Montagu, Hon. E. S. | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton) |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | Morgan, George Hay | Toulmin, Sir George |
| Guest, Hon. Frederick E. (Dorset, E.) | Morrell, Philip | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Gwynn, Stephen Lucius (Galway) | Morison, Hector | Ure, Rt. Hon. Alexander |
| Hackett, John | Muldoon, John | Verney, Sir Harry |
| Hall, F. (Yorks, Normanton | Munro, R. | Warner, Sir Thomas Courtenay |
| Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | Murphy, Martin J. | Watt, Henry A. |
| Harmsworth, Cecil (Luton, Beds) | Murray, Captain Hon. Arthur C. | Webb, H. |
| Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) | Needham, Christopher | White, J. Dundas (Glasgow, Tradeston) |
| Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, West) | Nolan, Joseph | White, Sir Luke (Yorks, E.R.) |
| Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N.E.) | Nugent, Sir Walter Richard | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Havelock-Allan, Sir Henry | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Williams, J. (Glamorgan) |
| Hayden, John Patrick | O'Doherty, Philip | Williams, Penry (Middlesbrough) |
| Hayward, Evan | O'Dowd, John | Winfrey, Richard |
| Hazleton, Richard | O'Kelly, Edward P. (Wicklow, W.) | Wing, Thomas Edward |
| Helme, Sir Norval Watson | O'Malley, William | Young, William (Perth, East) |
| Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | O'Neill, Dr. Charles (Armagh, S.) | |
| Henry, Sir Charles | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Mr. Illingworth and Mr. Gulland. |
| Herbert, General Sir Ivor (Mon., S.) | O'Shee, James John | |
| Higham, John Sharp |
| NOES. | ||
| Anson, Rt. Hon. Sir William R. | Cator, John | Gilmour, Captain John |
| Archer-Shee, Major Martin | Cave, George | Glazebrook, Captain Philip K. |
| Ashley, Wilfrid W. | Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Goldsmith, Frank |
| Baird, J. L. | Chaloner, Colonel R. G. W. | Gordon, Hon. John Edward (Brighton) |
| Barnston, Harry | Clay, Captain H. H. Spender | Hall, Frederick (Dulwich) |
| Beach, Hon. Michael Hugh Hicks | Coates, Major Sir Edward Feetham | Hamilton, C. G. C. (Ches., Altrincham) |
| Benn, Arthur Shirley (Plymouth) | Craig, Ernest (Cheshire, Crewe) | Harris, Henry Percy |
| Benn, Ion Hamilton (Greenwich) | Craig, Captain J. (Down, E.) | Helmsley, Viscount |
| Bennett-Goldney, Francis | Craig, Norman (Kent, Thanet) | Henderson, Major H. (Berks, Abingdon) |
| Boles, Lieut.-Col. Dennis Fortescue | Cralk, Sir Henry | Hoare, Samuel John Gurney |
| Boscawen, Sir Arthur S. T. Griffith | Crichton-Stuart, Lord Ninian | Hope, Harry (Bute) |
| Bridgeman, W. Clive | Dairymple, Viscount | Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield) |
| Bull, Sir William James | Denison-Pender, J. C. | Hope, Major J. A. (Midlothian) |
| Burn, Colonel C. R. | Duncannon, Viscount | Horne, W. E. (Surrey, Guildford) |
| Campbell, Captain Duncan F. (Ayr, N.) | Eyres-Monsell, Bolton M. | Hunt, Rowland |
| Campion, W. R. | Fisher, Rt. Hon. W. Hayes | Jardine, Ernest (Somerset, E.) |
| Cassel, Felix | Fitzroy, Hon. Edward A. | Kerr-Smiley, Peter Kerr |
| Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement | Newton, Harry Kottingham | Thynne, Lord Alexander |
| Law, Rt. Hon. A. Bonar (Bootle) | O'Neill, Hon. A. E. B. (Antrim, Mid) | Touche, George Alexander |
| Lewisham, Viscount | Paget, Hugh Almeric | Tryon, Captain George Clement |
| Lloyd, George Ambrose (Stafford, W.) | Pease, Herbert Plye (Darlington) | Walker, Col. William Hall |
| Lloyd, George Butler (Shrewsbury) | Pollock, Ernest Murray | Weston, Colonel J. W. |
| M'Calmont, Major Robert C. A. | Pretyman, Ernest George | Wheler, Granville C. H. |
| M'Neill, Ronald (Kent, St. Augustine's) | Pryce-Jones, Col. E. | White, Major G. D. (Lancs., Southport) |
| Malcolm, Ian | Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) | Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset, W.) |
| Mason, James F. (Windsor) | Sanders, Robert Arthur | Willoughby, Major Hon. Claud |
| Meysey-Thompson, E. C. | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) | Winterton, Earl |
| Mills, Hon. Charles Thomas | Spear, Sir John Ward | Wood, Hon. E. F. L. (Yorks., Ripon) |
| Morrison-Bell, Capt. E. F. (Ashburton) | Stanley, Major Hon. G. F. (Preston) | Worthington-Evans, L. |
| Morrison-Bell, Major A. C. (Honiton) | Starkey, John R. | Younger, Sir George |
| Mount, William Arthur | Steel-Maitland, A. D. | |
| Neville, Reginald J. N. | Sykes, Sir Mark (Hull, Central) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Sir |
| Newman, John R. P. | Talbot, Lord E. | W. Bull and Mr. Meysey-Thompson. |
§ Question put accordingly, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill"
| Division No. 168.] | AYES | [5.50 a.m. |
| Abraham, William (Dublin, Harbour) | Gladstone, W. G. C. | Meehan, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.) |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Goldstone, Frank | Meehan, Patrick J. (Queen's Co., Leix) |
| Adamson, William | Greig, Colonel J. W. | Middlebrook, William |
| Addison, Dr. Christopher | Griffith, Ellis Jones | Millar, James Duncan |
| Agar-Robartes, Hon. T. C. R. | Guest, Hon. Frederick E. (Dorset, E.) | Molloy, Michael |
| Allen, Arthur A. (Dumbartonshire) | Gwynn, Stephen Lucius (Galway) | Mond, Rt. Hon. Sir Alfred |
| Allen, Rt. Hon. Charles P. (Stroud) | Hackett, John | Montagu, Hon. E. S. |
| Arnold, Sydney | Hall, Frederick (Yorks, Normanton) | Morgan, George Hay |
| Baker, H. T. (Accrington) | Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | Morrell, Philip |
| Barnes, George N. | Harmsworth, Cecil (Luton, Beds) | Morison, Hector |
| Barton, W. | Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) | Muldoon, John |
| Beauchamp, Sir Edward | Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, West) | Munro, Robert |
| Beck, Arthur Cecil | Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N.E.) | Murphy, Martin J. |
| Benn, W. W. (T. Hamlets, St. George) | Havelock-Allan, Sir Henry | Murray, Captain Hon. Arthur C. |
| Bentham, G. J. | Hayden, John Patrick | Needham, Christopher T. |
| Black, Arthur W. | Hayward, Evan | Nolan, Joseph |
| Boland, John Pius | Hazleton, Richard | Nugent, Sir Walter Richard |
| Booth, Frederick Handel | Helme, Sir Norval Watson | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) |
| Bowerman, Charles W. | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | O'Doherty, Philip |
| Boyle, Daniel (Mayo, North) | Henry, Sir Charles | O'Dowd, John |
| Brady, Patrick Joseph | Herbert, General Sir Ivor (Mon., S.) | O'Kelly, Edward P. (Wicklow, W.) |
| Brocklehurst, W. B. | Higham, John Sharp | O'Maley, William |
| Brunner, John F. L. | Hinds, John | O'Neill, Dr. Charles (Armagh, S.) |
| Bryce, J. Annan | Hobhouse, Rt. Hon. Charles E. H. | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. |
| Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Hogge, James Myles | O'Shee, James John |
| Cawley, Sir Frederick (Prestwich) | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | O'Sullivan, Timothy |
| Cawley, Harold T. (Lancs., Heywood) | Hughes, Spencer Leigh | Palmer, Godfrey, Mark |
| Chancellor, Henry George | John, Edward Thomas | Parker, James (Halifax) |
| Chapple, Dr. William Allen | Jones, Edgar R. (Merthyqr Tydvil) | Pease, Rt. Hon. Joseph A. (Rotherham) |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Jones, H. Haydn (Merioneth) | Phillips, John (Longford, S.) |
| Clough, William | Jones, J. Towyn (Carmarthen, East) | Pointer, Joseph |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire) | Pollard, Sir George H. |
| Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Jones, William S. Glyn- (Stepney) | Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H. |
| Crooks, William | Jewett, Frederick William | Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) |
| Crumley, Patrick | Joyce, Michael | Priestley, Sir Arthur (Grantham) |
| Cullinan, John | Keating, Matthew | Priestley, Sir W. E. B. (Bradford, E.) |
| Dalziel, Rt. Hon. Sir J. H. (Kirkcaldy) | Kellaway, Frederick George | Primrose, Hon. Neil James |
| Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Kelly, Edward | Pringle, William M. R. |
| Davies, Timothy (Lincs., Louth) | Kilbride, Denis | Raffan, Peter Wilson |
| Dawes, James Arthur | King, Joseph | Rea, Rt. Hon. Russell (South Shields) |
| Delany, William | Lambert, Richard (Wilts, Cricklade) | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough) |
| Denman, Hon. Richard Douglas | Lardner, James C. R. | Reddy, Michael |
| Devlin, Joseph | Lawson, Sir W. (Cumb'rld, Cockerm'th) | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) |
| Donelan, Captain A. | Leach, Charles | Redmond, William (Clare, E.) |
| Doris, William | Levy, Sir Maurice | Redmond, William Archer (Tyrone, E.) |
| Duffy, William J. | Lewis, Rt. Hon. John Herbert | Rendall, Athelstan |
| Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) | Lundon, Thomas | Richardson, Thomas (Whitehaven) |
| Elverston, Sir Harold | Lyell, Charles Henry | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) |
| Esmonde, Dr. John (Tipperary, N.) | Lynch, A. A. | Roberts, George H. (Norwich) |
| Esmonde, Sir Thomas (Wexford, N.) | Macdonald, J. Ramsay (Leicester) | Robertson, John M. (Tyneside) |
| Essex, Sir Richard Walter | McGhee, Richard | Robinson, Sidney |
| Falconer, James | Macnamara, Rt. Hon. Dr. T. J. | Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke) |
| Fenwick, Rt. Hon. Charles | MacNeill, J. G. Swift (Donegal, South) | Roche, Augustine (Louth) |
| Ferens, Rt. Hon. Thomas Robinson | Macpherson, James Ian | Rowlands, James |
| Ffrench, Peter | MacVeagh, Jeremiah | Rowntree, Arnold |
| Field, William | M'Curdy, Charles Albert | Russell, Rt. Hon. Thomas W. |
| Fiennes, Hon. Eustace Edward | McKenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald | Samuel, Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland) |
| Fitzgibbon, John | M'Laren, Hon. F.W. S. (Lines, Spalding) | Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees) |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | Marshall, Arthur Harold | Scanlan, Thomas |
| France, Gerald Ashburner | Meagher, Michael | Scott, A. MacCallum (Glas., Bridgeton) |
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 205; Noes, 95.
| Seely, Rt. Hon. Colonel J. E. B. | Toulmin, Sir George | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Sheehy, David | Trevelyan, Charles Philips | Williams, J. (Glamorgan) |
| Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir John Allsebrook | Ure, Rt. Hon. Alexander | Williams, Penry (Middlesbrough) |
| Smith, Albert (Lancs., Clitheroe) | Verney, Sir Harry | Winfrey, Richard |
| Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.) | Warner, Sir Thomas Courtenay T. | Wing, Thomas Edward |
| Strauss, Edward A. (Southwark, West) | Watt, Henry A. | Young, William (Perthshire, East) |
| Sutherland, John E. | Webb, H. | |
| Sutton, John E. | White, J. Dundas (Glasgow, Tradeston) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Mr. Illingworth and Mr. Gulland. |
| Tennant, Harold John | White, Sir Luke (Yorks, E.R.) | |
| Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton) |
| NOES. | ||
| Anson, Rt. Hon. Sir William R. | Fitzroy, Hon. Edward A. | Newton, Harry Kottingham |
| Archer-Shee, Major Martin | Gilmour, Captain John | O'Neill, Hon. A. E. B. (Antrim, Mid) |
| Ashley, Wilfrid W. | Glazebrook, Captain Philip K. | Paget, Almeric Hugh |
| Baird, J. L. | Gordon, Hon. John Edward (Brighton) | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington) |
| Baker, Sir Randolf L. (Dorset, N.) | Hall, Frederick (Dulwich) | Perkins, Walter F. |
| Barnston, Harry | Hamilton, C. G. C. (Ches., Altrincham) | Pollock, Ernest Murray |
| Beach, Hon. Michael Hugh Hicks | Harris, Henry Percy | Pretyman, Ernest George |
| Benn, Arthur Shirley (Plymouth) | Helmsley, Viscount | Pryce-Jones, Colonel E. |
| Benn, Ion Hamilton (Greenwich) | Henderson, Major H. (Berks, Abingdon) | Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) |
| Bennett-Goldney, Francis | Hoare, Samuel John Gurney | Sanders, Robert Arthur |
| Boles, Lieut.-Colonel Dennis Fortescue | Hope, Harry (Bute) | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
| Boscawen, Sir Arthur S. T. Griffith | Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield) | Spear, Sir John Ward |
| Bridgeman, William Clive | Hope, Major J. A. (Midlothian) | Stanley, Hon. G. F. (Preston) |
| Bull, Sir William James | Horne, E. (Surrey, Guildford) | Starkey, John R. |
| Burn, Colonel C. R. | Hunt, Rowland | Steel-Maitland, A. D. |
| Campbell, Captain Duncan F. (Ayr, N.) | Jardine, Ernest (Somerset, E.) | Sykes, Sir Mark (Hull, Central) |
| Campion, W. R. | Kerr-Smiley, Peter Kerr | Talbot, Lord Edmund |
| Cassel, Felix | Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement | Thynne, Lord Alexander |
| Cator, John | Law, Rt. Hon. A. Bonar (Bootle) | Touche, George Alexander |
| Cave, George | Lewisham, Viscount | Tryon, Captain George Clement |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Lloyd, George Ambrose (Stafford, W.) | Walker, Colonel William Hall |
| Chaloner, Colonel R. G. W. | Lloyd, George Butler (Shrewsbury) | Wheler, Granville, C. H. |
| Clay, Captain H. H. Spender | M'Calmont, Major Robert C. A. | White, Major G. D. (Lancs., Southport) |
| Coates, Major Sir Edward Feetham | M'Neill, Ronald (Kent, St. Augustine's) | Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset, W.) |
| Craig, Ernest (Cheshire, Crewe) | Malcolm, Ian | Willoughby, Major Hon. Claud |
| Craig, Captain James (Down, E.) | Mason, James F. (Windsor) | Winterton, Earl |
| Craig, Norman (Kent, Thanet) | Meysey-Thompson, E. C. | Wood, Hon. E. F. L. (Yorks, Ripon) |
| Craik, Sir Henry | Mills, Hon. Charles Thomas | Worthington-Evans, L. |
| Dairymple, Viscount | Morrison-Bell, Capt. E. F. (Ashburton) | Younger, Sir George |
| Denison-Pender, J. C. | Morrison-Bell, Major A. C. (Honiton) | |
| Duncannon, Viscount | Mount, William Arthur | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr. Goldsmith and Lord Ninian Crichton- Stuart. |
| Eyres-Monsell, Bolton M. | Neville, Reginald J. N. | |
| Fisher, Rt. Hon. W. Hayes | Newman, John R. P. |
Sir H. DALZIELI think the supporters of the Government on this side of the House have heard with some astonishment the Motion which has just been made by the President of the Board of Education. I am surprised that after the declaration of the right hon. Gentleman some short time ago, that he would only surrender on the understanding that this Bill would be passed up to the report stage on Friday; he has now put up the white flag without one word of explanation. I say that there is more due to the supporters of the Government than treatment of that kind, and this is more especially the case as we have loyally supported Ministers throughout a very long night. What was the object which the Government set out to achieve during to-night's debate and divisions? It was, if I understood it aright, that they should get these new Clauses on Friday. [Laughter.] I am sure hon. and right hon. Gentlemen oppo- 2132 site are fully entitled to their mirth at having got the Government to succumb so ingloriously, and I hope that the Government enjoy their cheers.
For my part, I rather think it would be better to act on the advice of their own supporters. You cannot get this Bill by agreement on Friday. There are many new Clauses, and it is my opinion, as it will be the opinion of anyone who looks into the question, that we ought to go on and get some of these Clauses to-night. We could make a start at any rate. The right hon. Gentleman, I am afraid, misled the House when he suggested that we could not get on with the Clauses to-night, and that we ought to report Progress. This is not in any real sense a Radical Bill, and the Government have had some difficulty in inducing the Radical democracy to believe that they were in earnest about this question of plural voting.
The CHAIRMANWe are debating a Motion to report Progress, and hon. Gentlemen must confine themselves strictly to that question.
Sir H. DALZIELAm I not entitled to give reasons to show that the Government are not acting fairly to their supporters? I submit that, in view of the attitude of the Opposition, the Government are not justified in moving to report Progress at the present time. In view of the way in which the night has been occupied, I think we ought to go on.
The CHAIRMANIt is not permissible to review the previous incidents of the evening on a Motion to report Progress.
§ Viscount HELMSLEYOn a point of Order. Is not your ruling one which we have heard for the first time? Do I understand you to say that it is not permissible to review the events of the evening which have led up to a Motion to report Progress?
The CHAIRMANI do not think it is. It is quite plain under the Standing Order. I have not been too strict, either to-night or on other occasions, but, as a matter of fact, it is not in order on a Motion to report Progress that a general review shall be entered into of what has taken place. The Standing Order says that on a Motion to report Progress the Debate shall be confined to the matter of such Motion.
§ Viscount HELMSLEYI submit that I should be in order in referring to the time which has been spent in discussing the hon. Member's Amendment. We have not had sufficient time to discuss the real details of the Bill. The main time was occupied by hon. Gentlemen supporting one of their own Amendments. I have been here twenty-one years, and I have frequently heard Motions to report Progress at all hours of the night, and I think we have always been allowed a very wide range upon that particular Motion. I have hoped the hon. Gentleman opposite and the right hon. Gentleman will be fully satisfied with the evening we have gone through. So far as we are concerned we are perfectly satisfied, and we hope the country will take notice of it.
§ Earl WINTERTONOn a point of Order. I think, Sir, your ruling just given is one of the highest importance. So far as I remember on the Motion for the adjournment of the Debate or to report Progress, Members have always been allowed to refer to what had taken place during the Debate. I think, if that ruling is to be followed, we shall be in a different position in the future from what in which we have stood up to the present.
The CHAIRMANThe Rules and the Standing Orders say that the Debate on a Motion shall be confined to the matter of such Motion. It is my duty to administer that Standing Order, and there can be no doubt that upon a Motion to report Progress you cannot review the proceedings of the evening. I have never attempted to apply that rule in a pedantic or narrow way, but I am bound to say once more that you cannot have that general review of the proceedings of the evening on a Motion to report Progress.
§ Viscount HELMSLEYWould you give a definite ruling on that subject without having an opportunity of looking up the precedents?
The CHAIRMANI think the matter is quite plain. I do not mean to take objection to references such as have been habitual. But I am quite certain that no Chairman would permit a general review and recrimination by both sides of the House of the previous progress of the Debate on a Motion to report Progress.
§ Mr. CASSELIs it not the case that one of the reasons for the Motion to report Progress is that the previous incidents of the evening justified it, and would it not be in order to refer to those incidents?
§ Mr. PRINGLEThe question is whether we proceed with the business or whether we report Progress. Are we not entitled to refer to the previous discussion and to draw arguments from the events of the evening as to whether business should be proceeded with or not?
The CHAIRMANIt is entirely a matter in which I should use my discretion. I can only now repeat what I have said, that to allow a general review of the proceedings of the night on such a Motion would be most undesirable.
Sir H. DALZIELI regret very much that the Government should have put forward this Motion, and I have made my protest against their action. I may congratulate the Opposition upon having got a new cry for the constituencies. It will be, "We have fought all night, and we still have ten votes to your one."
Mr. PEASEPerhaps I ought to have mentioned the reason I moved to report Progress. I was under the impression that we had no alternative but to proceed with this Bill to-night, and probably get it through its Committee stage, including the new Clauses. That was certainly my intention, and it only came to my know- 2135 ledge a short time ago that the Opposition understood at an early hour this evening that we were not going to proceed with the new Clauses to-night. Apparently the hon. Member for the City of London (Sir F. Banbury) and others left the House expecting that the new Clauses would come up for discussion another day. I think it advisable under these circumstances to move this Motion, although the Patronage Secretary does not think any words he used justify that impression being entertained by the Opposition. Under these circumstances it seems to me right that I should move to report Progress, but I do think there is also an obligation on the part of the Opposition. [OPPOSITION MEMBERS: "No."] I am only expressing what I believe to be a moral obligation on the other side—not to protract unduly the proceedings on Friday, and with a view, I hope, of securing the completion of the new Clauses before five o'clock on that day we shall propose to-morrow that the House do meet at eleven o'clock on Friday.
§ Mr. BONAR LAWIt certainly is no business of mine to defend a Member of the present Government from one of his angry followers, but at the same time I think it only fair to the right hon. Gentleman to say that not only did we understand, whether rightly or wrongly, that such an arrangement had been made with the Patronage Secretary, but I clearly understood from the right hon. Gentleman himself that his intention to do so had nothing to do with any bargain at all. It will be found on reference to what was said that the right hon. Gentleman meant to get up to the new Clauses before moving to report Progress, and I am sure the very last thing any Government would do would be to break a bargain, no matter what the effect would be. [MINISTERIAL MEMBERS: "What bargain?"] Hon. Members who take a different view had better, I think, see what the right hon. Gentleman said as reported in "Hansard," as I have not the least doubt that his intentions had nothing to do with what the Opposition would do. As regards Friday, I can only say we are under no obligation of any kind.
§ Mr. ILLINGWORTHI am quite willing to go on, and it is very refreshing to a Chief Whip to find his followers so eager to do so, but the arrangement I made with the Noble Lord opposite at seven o'clock last night was that if we did not proceed further than we have done 2136 to-night we should get the new Clauses on Friday.
§ Lord EDMUND TALBOTI am afraid I cannot at all accept that. The hon. Member opposite came to me about seven o'clock and told me very courteously that the Government had decided that they must get the Committee stage to-night and that they would take the new Clauses on Friday. I accepted his statement.
§ Mr. ARTHUR HENDERSONI think we on this side of the House have reason to protest very strongly against the Motion moved by the President of the Board of Education. I was against the Motion when it was proposed, and I feel more strongly against it now after the speech of the right hon. Gentleman himself, and because of the apparent breaking of a bargain that was somewhat tentatively fixed up, according to the Patronage Secretary, and is now disowned by the Opposition.
§ Mr. ILLINGWORTHI would not for a moment suggest that the Noble Lord has attempted to break his word with me. It may be my fault. The hon. Member is entitled to blame me for any misunderstanding, but I hope he won't blame the Noble Lord.
§ Lord E. TALBOTI repeat again that what I distinctly understood from the hon. Gentleman was that the Government were determined to take the whole of the Committee stage to-night and the new Clauses on Friday. I assumed that he certainly would get them in the time, but there was no arrangement, no bargain.
§ Mr. A. HENDERSONThe observation I was proceeding to make was based on the statement of the Patronage Secretary, but that is not all I have to say. I think I have heard the Leader of the Opposition three times during this Session disclaim, emphatically, that he was going to be a party to any bargain. Whatever the Chief Whip on the opposite side has done, we do know where the Leader of the Opposition stands.
§ Mr. BONAR LAWI only want to say that, so far as my declaration was concerned, it had no bearing on any arrangement between my Noble Friend and the Patronage Secretary. On the contrary, I said to my Noble Friend just now, that if there were any possibility of a misunderstanding I would stick to the bargain, and he only refused to do so because he was certain there was no misunderstanding.
§ Mr. A. HENDERSONIt seems to me and many, I think, on this side of the House, that the more often the right hon. Gentleman intervenes the more clear is the duty of the Government to go on. There is to be no bargain unless it is to be a one-sided bargain, and I on behalf of my Friends on these Benches, join in the protest that has been made. We have been kept here until this very unfortunate hour, and the next two hours can be very profitably spent here. We can get through two or three of the new Clauses, so that there will be less to do on Friday, and those who are anxious to get the Bill through will be more satisfied that by Friday night the Bill will be safe. I sincerely trust that now that we have been told very distinctly both by the Leader of the Opposition and his Chief Whip that there is no bargain and no understanding, I hope the President of the Board of Education will withdraw his Motion.
§ Mr. ROWLAND HUNTI think I may say that the hon. Gentleman who has just spoken accused the Leader of the Opposition of breaking a bargain. [HON. MEMBERS: "No."] That, apparently, was what the hon. Gentleman got up to say, at first, and I think most of the Committee, at all events, had that impression. What I want to say is that before any Members of the Government accuse us of breaking a bargain, they must remember that the Secretary of State for War, on behalf of the Government, recently promised an extra whole day for the army, but that when it came to a question of its being endorsed by the Prime Minister, the Prime Minister refused to give the extra whole day which had been promised. We are not going to sit down under insinuations that we are not playing the game. It should be made perfectly clear to the people of this country that if there is any question as to honesty in not keeping one's word, it does not rest with the party on this side of the House.
§ Mr. MEYSEY-THOMPSONrose in his place and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put," but the Chairman withheld his assent, and declined then to put that Question.
§ Mr. PRINGLEI wish to say a few words with regard to the attitude taken up by the hon. Member for Kirkcaldy (Sir Henry Dalziel), and the hon. Member for Barnard Castle (Mr. Arthur Henderson). I do not wish to cast any reflection on the President of the Board of Education, 2138 or on the Patronage Secretary to the Treasury, but I think the situation we have reached is a very unfortunate one for all parties in the Committee. We are led to ask this question: When is a bargain not a bargain. During the earlier part of of the evening, when former Motions to report Progress were made, the Leader of the Opposition constantly asserted that no bargain was made, yet we are now told that all the time the Noble Lord the Member for Chichester, had a bargain up his sleeve. [HON. MEMBERS: "No, no"] Yes.
The CHAIRMANI really do not think that is a statement which ought to be made. At any rate, it is an implication of the kind that we do not permit in this House, and I do not think it ought to be made of one hon. Member by another. [HON. MEMBERS: "Withdraw, apologise."]
§ Mr. PRINGLEI express my regret for having used an unparliamentary expression, which I wish at once to withdraw. I did not intend to use an unparliamentary expression. It is a very unfortunate thing that these arrangements are made behind the Speaker's Chair in secret. No one who heard the previous Debates on the Motions to report Progress could have had the slightest idea that there was the semblance of an understanding between the two Front Benches. I make bold to say that none of the hon. Gentlemen opposite, who so wildly and enthusiastically cheered the Leader of the Opposition, when he said there was no bargain, believed that the Noble Lord, the Member for Chichester, and the Patronage Secretary, had reached an understanding in regard to this matter. [HON. MEMBERS: "They had not."] Well, at a misunderstanding. I quite appreciate the attitude which the Patronage Secretary has taken up. It is characteristic of him that he should take up a chivalrous and generous attitude but we do not believe that the interest of the party, and the cause for which we are fighting should suffer because of the chivalrous sentiments of the Patronage Secretary. We are not bound by that attitude; and we decline to be bound by it. [HON MEMBERS: "Go on."] The situation is that all parties now hold that there has been no understanding. As there is no understanding, the President of the Board of Education can now withdraw his Motion to report progress. Then, apparently, the wish of everybody will be realised, and we can go on, and take three or four of the new Clauses, and finish the Bill on Friday.
Mr. PEASEI ask leave to withdraw the Motion. If the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition had said there was a bargain, of course, I would not have asked leave to withdraw. I understand him to say, however, that there was no bargain, and the Noble Lord the Member for Chichester and the Patronage Secretary to the Treasury also admit that there has been a misunderstanding. I think in those circumstances, it would be right for us to proceed with one or two of the new Clauses.
§ Mr. BONAR LAWIf I may be allowed to say so, the course which the right hon. Gentleman has taken is, without exception, the most extraordinary I have ever known. The position has not in the slightest degree changed since he made his speech before. He did not maintain, and the Patronage Secretary did not maintain, that there had been a bargain with the Opposition. What I understood the Patronage Secretary to say was that, though he thought there was no understanding, he found my Noble Friend (Lord Edmund Talbot) was under the impression that what he had said to him was that all the business to be taken to-day was up to the new Clauses. The right hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of Education himself put it on this ground, that whether it was my Noble Friend or the Patronage Secretary who was mistaken, the fact that there was this misunderstanding made him feel that it was his duty not to proceed further to-night. I quite admit that if the right hon. Gentleman in what was said publicly had made the statement after a bargain had been refused by us he would have been no longer bound. He would in that case have been free to proceed further, but it is my clear recollection that when I first moved to report Progress this morning or last night, I am not sure which, the right hon. Gentleman got up and, before there was any suggestion of asking for any understanding on our part, he told us that it was the intention of the Government to get this Bill through to-night up to the point which has now been reached. What I say is, if that is found to be correct, as it will be when the report of the Debate is examined, then the right hon. Gentleman is not free to make the change he proposes now. There is somehing else I feel bound to say, I cerainly have not joined in the remarks about the absence of the Prime Minister to-night. I realise that the right hon. Gentleman has duties 2140 which would make it impossible that he should take part in all our sittings; but I am perfectly certain of this, that no leader of the House of Commons, and no Minister who exercises anything like the authority of a leader of the House of Commons, after he had definitely moved a Motion of this kind would withdraw from it because of the threats of some of his supporters.
§ Viscount HELMSLEYI cannot help thinking that there is a little confusion of thought on the other side of the House as to what the situation really is. It appears to me that although there has been no bargain which implies a concession on the part of the Opposition to the Government, what there quite evidently has been is a statement of intention by the Patronage Secretary to the Noble Lord (Lord Edmund Talbot) on this side. I think that statement of intention was a very excessive programme for the night, and therefore, no arrangement was come to in order to facilitate the progress of business for the Government.
§ Mr. PRINGLEYou never accepted it.
§ Viscount HELMSLEYIt was not accepted in the sense of taking any concession from it; but it was understood during the whole evening, certainly by myself, and as I thought by everybody else, that the amount of business which the Government were going to take was the Committee stage of the Bill up to the new Clauses, because that had been their intention, as the Patronage Secretary said he informed the Noble Lord earlier in the evening. It is not fair, therefore to say that there has been any bargain. We were quite entitled on this side to think that the amount of business which the Government said they would take was in excess of what they ought to take, and that is why we have thought it necessary to put forward the opposition which has been in evidence to-night. It is extraordinary, under the circumstances that the right hon. Gentleman, the President of the Board of Education should wish to withdraw his motion to report progress, and we are entitled to say it is an abrogation of the intention most distinctly expressed by the Government. We were led to believe that that was what the right hon. Gentleman was going to do quite apart from any action of ours, and now we are told that the Government are going to do something which is precisely the opposite. For my own part I am strongly of the opinion that the 2141 right hon Gentleman ought to persevere with his Motion to report Progress.
§ Mr. PRETYMANThere is one point which the right hon. Gentleman the Minister for Education omitted in his second speech which he referred to in his first speech, that was that the understanding of the House was that the point to be reached to-night was the point at which we have now arrived. [HON. MEMBER: "No, no."] I can assure hon. Members that I am not, at this moment, creating an understanding between the parties. What I am doing is to show that it was anticipated that business would stop short when the new Clauses were reached. The Patronage Secretary said so himself, and it was stated by the right hon. Gentleman the Minister for Education, that the point which the Government desired to reach—and he repeated it just now—was the point we are now at. He went on to add in his first speech that hon. Members on this side of the House, owing to that anticipation, had left the House. He was referring then to hon. Gentlemen in whose names the new Clauses stand. They had left the House, he said, in the anticipation that they would be in a position to move these new Clauses on Friday, and that was, to my mind, the most conclusive reason he gave for making the Motion for the Adjournment of the House. That reason, as the Committee will recognise, still exists in its full force. It is, I maintain, an understanding, not between the two parties, but an understanding between the Government and the whole House. I say that when the Government made a responsible statement that they desired to take on a certain day certain business up to a certain point, they have no right to go any further. That is a matter of very long standing precedent. I have been in the House for about eighteen years, and it is the first time in my recollection that there has been such a departure as is now proposed to be made. It is, as I say, entirely without precedent that when the point has been reached at which it is understood our proceedings shall end, the Government should then decide to proceed with further business without giving hon. Members an opportunity of moving Amendments which they have put on the Paper, but which, in this case, they will be unable to move owing to the fact that they have left the House on the understanding that no further progress was to be made to-night. I maintain that the right hon. Gentleman, having 2142 got up and told the House definitely that that was his reason for moving the Motion, has no right whatever now to change his mind. I say that particularly because his engagement in the matter is not to his own followers or to the Opposition, but to, the whole House, and he has no right, in deference to pressure exercised from his own supporters behind him, to yield in the weak manner in which he has yielded. His undertaking to the House as a whole, in the name of the Government, ought to weigh with him much more strongly than the pressure which has been exercised from the Back Benches. He ought to take responsibility for what he has said and to act up to it.
Mr. PEASEI would remind the hon. and gallant Member that the Noble Lord who sits by his side (Lord Edmund Talbot) admitted that he expected and understood that we were going to secure the new Clauses on Friday The Patronage Secretary (Mr. Illingworth) believed that he had made an arrangement with the Noble Lord, and, therefore, there was a misunderstanding on both sides. I think that as there has been this misunderstanding and as I did not understand from the Patronage Secretary the full measure of his understanding with the Noble Lord, we ought really in these circumstances to proceed, unless the Noble Lord can say that we shall secure these new Clauses on Friday.
§ Mr. PRETYMANMy point is that quite apart——
The CHAIRMANI would ask hon. Members in all parts of the House, when we are dealing with one of the most delicate matters, one that frequently occurs, connected with all parts of the House, to listen to one another and not to interject "No, no." Obviously there-are two views and the only way is patiently to listen to the two views and not to interrupt with negatives while an hon. Member is speaking.
§ Mr. PRETYMANMy point was that quite apart from the question of an understanding, which has only been raised within the last quarter of an hour, the Government had definitely stated their intention to go up to this point to-night and to get the new Clauses on Friday. That is what they said, and, therefore, I maintain that they are bound to the House not to 2143 go further to-night than they said they intended to go. As to Friday, let them carry out their intention if they can. It is no reason whatever, as between the Government and the House, that because, having expressed their definite intention of going to a certain point to-night they have changed their mind, they should be allowed to do so. Because they find a greater risk in carrying out the second portion of their programme for Friday, they have no right to go back on or go beyond what they have stated in the House, and now at seven o'clock in the morning, to be taking new Clauses which it has been understood by the House from the statement of the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Pease) were not to be taken until Friday——
§ Mr. PRETYMANThat is my point. The right hon. Gentleman has twice said so. He said so in his first speech.
§ Mr. PRETYMANI think I am within the recollection of the House when I say that the right hon. Gentleman is suffering under a misunderstanding.
§ Mr. PRETYMANI am not maintaining that there was a bargain. It was a mere statement of intention by the Government of taking a certain quantity of business within a certain time. The right hon. Gentleman has made that statement twice, and he is responsible for it. He admitted it in his first speech on the Motion for Adjournment, and all I rise to say is that he did not deal with it at all, and until he has done so I do not think he has any right to go back on it.
Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTTIt is quite clear, Mr. Whitley, that there was neither a bargain nor a statement of intention by the Government. The Patronage Secretary (Mr. Illingworth) saw the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Edmund Talbot) with the intention of making a bargain. He offered as part of the bargain that we would stop before the new Clauses on the understanding that we had the new Clauses on Friday. That was his intention. The Noble Lord misunderstood him. 2144 He did not understand that there was any attempt to make a bargain. He thought the Patronage Secretary was making a generous offer without any undertaking on his part. He thought that the Patronage Secretary had approached him out of the generosity of his heart with an undertaking that we should stop when we got to the new Clauses to-night. That is quite a genuine misunderstanding on the part of the Noble Lord. He had thought mistakenly that the Government, through the Patronage Secretary, had made a declaration of intention. That never was understood or meant by the Patronage Secretary, because he has told us that he went with the intention of making a bargain. If there had been any misunderstanding, if hon. Members opposite have been misled and have left the House through being misled, the mistake has been made by the Noble Lord opposite, who has misled his followers on the other side, and who has sent them away from the House on a false understanding.
Captain CRAIGMr. Whitley, I have not intervened all through these Debates and I cannot help feeling that if the Government had a real leader, or if the Prime Minister himself were here, this Debate would speedily end in the way one was speedily ended on a famous occasion before, when it was said that in the circumstances the Debate should cease and that Members should be allowed to go home to prepare themselves for the duties of the day. Can anyone doubt that, leaving aside all the questions that have drifted into this discussion, this is not the proper time to continue a Debate of such importance The situation is all the more serious and grave under the Parliament Act, because it is well known that under that Act all these measures have to be finally settled one way or the other in the first year, and when they come before the House for the second or third time, if they are not properly constructed, there is no chance—as we have experienced this year—of altering one line or word of the Bill. This House, therefore, should make certain that on the first introduction of a Bill under the Parliament Act we should deliberate properly on the measure and take every possible care on the Committee and Report stages that it is possible for a legislative assembly to take. Instead of that, the absurd proposition is made by the right hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill (Mr. Pease) that after sitting for sixteen hours and 2145 after four hours in the Division Lobbies we should still go on adding to the Bill, that Members not in the proper spirit to go on should consider a measure of such importance. When it is early in the session and when there is ample opportunity for the Government to give the time it is unnecessary to carry the Bill through without it being discussed as it should be discussed in the Mother of Parliaments. I have seen a good many all-night sittings and I have watched the demeanour of Gentlemen on all sides of the House, and I can say that at the present moment the House is not in a proper and fit condition to go on.
Captain CRAIGI pay no attention to the cheers of the Nationalist or Labour parties, Mr. Whitley, both of whom would vote for any absurd thing that was brought forward, as they admit themselves. The hon. and learned Member said they did not care a straw for English measures and that they only voted for them in order to get Home Rule. I say, therefore, that I pay no attention to those cheers. May I also point out that hon. Members have attended on the other side not for the purposes of improving this Bill or assisting its being put on the Statute Book in a proper condition, but simply to do nothing but jeer and interrupt. One would think that this was a trivial matter that did not, affect the country——
§ Mr. PRINGLEOn a point of Order, Mr. Whitley. Is the hon. and gallant Member not reviewing the proceedings of the evening?
The CHAIRMANAt the moment, at any rate, I think he was dealing with the proceedings of the present.
| Division No. 169.] | AYES | [6.55 a.m. |
| Abraham, William (Dublin, Harbour) | Brocklehurst, W. B. | Delany, William |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Brunner, John F. L. | Denman, Hon. Richard Douglas |
| Addison, Dr. Christopher | Bryce, J. Annan | Devlin, Joseph |
| Allen, Arthur A. (Dumbartonshire) | Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Donelan, Captain A. |
| Allen, Rt. Hon. Charles P. (Stroud) | Cawley, Sir Frederick (Prestwich) | Doris, William |
| Arnold, Sydney | Cawley, Harold T. (Lancs., Heywood) | Duffy, William J. |
| Baker, H. T. (Accrington) | Chancellor, Henry George | Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) |
| Barnes, George N. | Chapple, Dr. William Allen | Elverston, Sir Harold |
| Barton, William | Clancy, John Joseph | Esmonde, Dr. John (Tipperary, N.) |
| Beauchamp, Sir Edward | Clough, William | Esmonde, Sir Thomas (Wexford, N.) |
| Beck, Arthur Cecil | Condon, Thomas Joseph | Essex, Sir Richard Walter |
| Benn, W. W. (T. Hamlets, St. George) | Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Falconer, James |
| Bentham, G. J. | Crooks, William | Fenwick, Rt. Hon. Charles |
| Black, Arthur W | Crumley, Patrick | Ferens, Rt. Hon. Thomas Robinson |
| Boland, John Pius | Cullinan, John | Ffrench, Peter |
| Booth, Frederick Handel | Dalziel, Rt. Hon. Sir J. H. (Kirkcaldy) | Field, William |
| Bowerman, C. W. | Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Fiennes, Hon. Eustace Edward |
| Boyle, Daniel (Mayo, North) | Davies, Timothy (Lines., Louth) | Fitzgibbon, John |
| Brady, Patrick Joseph | Dawes, James Arthur | Flavin, Michael Joseph |
Captain CRAIGI have nothing to withdraw. I certainly think that if I transgress the Rules of the House the Chairman, whoever he is, will call me to order very smartly. It is certainly a want of leadership on this Bill which causes this continued forcing of a measure through the House at a high rate of speed when there is no necessity for it. The right hon. Gentleman has not explained to us what would happen if on Friday he did not get all his new Clauses. Why not go on on Monday? Monday is very early in the Session. Instead of rising on the 15th or 16th of August, as the official journals have stated we shall do, it would mean that we should rise on the 17th or 18th. That is not a great hardship. It is far better to make the Bill a better Bill than to dragoon it through this House and make it a disgrace which will show the country one more example of how the work is done in this House.
§ The SECRETARY of STATE for the HOME DEPARTMENT (Mr. McKenna) rose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."
§ Viscount HELMSLEYon a point of Order, Sir. Did not the right hon Gentleman ask leave to withdraw the Motion?
§ Question put, "That the Question be now put."
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 199; Noes, 88.
| France, Gerald Ashburner | Macdonald, J. Ramsay (Leicester) | Pringle, William M. R. |
| Gladstone, W. G. C. | McGhee, Richard | Raffan, Peter Wilson |
| Goldstone, Frank | Macnamara, Rt. Hon. Dr. T. J. | Rea, Rt. Hon. Russell (South Shields) |
| Greig, Colonel J. W. | MacNeill, J. G. Swift (Donegal, South) | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough) |
| Griffith, Ellis Jones | Macpherson, James Ian | Reddy, Michael |
| Guest, Hon. Fredrick E. (Dorset, E.) | MacVeagh, Jeremiah | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) |
| Gwynn, Stephen Lucius (Galway) | M'Curdy, Charles Albert | Redmond, William (Clare, E.) |
| Hackett, John | McKenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald | Redmond, William Archer (Tyrone, E.) |
| Hall, F. (Yorks, Normanton) | M'Laren, Hon. F.W.S. (Lincs., Spalding) | Rendall, Athelstan |
| Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | Marshall, Arthur Harold | Richardson, Thomas (Whitehaven) |
| Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) | Meagher, Michael | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) |
| Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, West) | Meehan, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.) | Roberts, George H. (Norwich) |
| Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N.E.) | Meehan, Patrick J. (Queen's Co., Leix) | Robertson, John M, (Tyneside) |
| Havelock-Allan, Sir Henry | Middlebrook, William | Robinson, Sidney |
| Hayden, John Patrick | Millar, James Duncan | Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke) |
| Hayward, Evan | Molloy, Michael | Rowlands, James |
| Hazleton, Richard | Mond, Rt. Hon. Sir Alfred | Rowntree, Arnold |
| Helme, Sir Norval Watson | Montagu, Hon. E. S. | Russell, Rt. Hon. Thomas W. |
| Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Morgan, George Hay | Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees) |
| Henry, Sir Charles | Morrell, Philip | Scanlan, Thomas |
| Herbert, General, Sir Ivor (Mon., S.) | Morison, Hector | Scott, A. MacCallum (Glas., Bridgeton) |
| Higham, John Sharp | Muldoon, John | Seely, Rt. Hon. Colonel J. E. B. |
| Hinds, John | Munro, Robert | Sheehy, David |
| Hobhouse, Rt. Hon. Charles E. H. | Murphy, Martin J. | Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir John Allsebrook |
| Hogge, James Myles | Murray, Captain Hon. Arthur C. | Smith, Albert (Lancs., Clitheroe) |
| Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | Needham, Christopher T. | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.) |
| Hughes, Spencer Leigh | Nolan, Joseph | Strauss, Edward A. (Southwark, West) |
| John, Edward Thomas | Nugent, Sir Walter Richard | Sutherland, John E. |
| Jones, Edgar (Merthyr Tydvil) | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Sutton, John E. |
| Jones, H. Haydn (Merioneth) | O'Doherty, Philip | Tennant, Harold John |
| Jones, J. Towyn (Carmarthen, East) | O'Dowd, John | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton) |
| Jones, William (Carnarvonshire) | O'Kelly, Edward P. (Wicklow, W.) | Toulmin, Sir George |
| Jones, William S. Glyn- (Stepney) | O'Malley, William | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Jewett, Frederick William | O'Neill, Dr. Charles (Armagh, S.) | Ure, Rt. Hon. Alexander |
| Joyce, Michael | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | Verney, Sir Harry |
| Keating, Matthew | O'Shee, James John | Watt, Henry A. |
| Kellaway, Frederick George | O'Sullivan, Timothy | Webb, H. |
| Kelly, Edward | Palmer, Godfrey Mark | White, J. Dundas (Glasgow, Tradeston) |
| Kilbride, Denis | Parker, James (Halifax) | White, Sir Luke (Yorks, E.R.) |
| King, Joseph | Pease, Rt. Hon. Joseph A. (Rotherham) | White, Patricia (Meath, North) |
| Lambert, Richard (Wilts, Cricklade) | Phillips, John (Longford, S.) | Williams, J. (Glamorgan) |
| Lardner, James C. R. | Pointer, Joseph | Williams, Penry (Middlesbrough) |
| Lawson, Sir W. (Cumb'rld, Cockerm'th) | Pollard, Sir George H. | Winfrey, Richard |
| Leach, Charles | Ponsonhy, Arthur A. W. H. | Wing, Thomas Edward |
| Levy, Sir Maurice | Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) | Young, William (Perth, East) |
| Lewis, Rt. Hon. John Herbert | Priestley, Sir Arthur (Grantham) | |
| Lundon, Thomas | Priestley, Sir W. E. B. (Bradford, E.) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Mr. Illingworth and Mr. Gulland. |
| Lyell, Charles Henry | Primrose, Hon. Neill James | |
| Lynch, A. A. |
| NOES. | ||
| Anson, Rt. Hon. Sir William R. | Eyres-Monsell, Bolton M. | O'Neill, Hon. A. E. B. (Antrim, Mid) |
| Archer-Shoe, Major Martin | Fitzroy, Hon. Edward A. | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington) |
| Ashley, Wilfrid W. | Gilmour, Captain John | Perkins, Walter F. |
| Baird, J. L. | Glazebrook, Captain Philip K. | Pollock, Ernest Murray |
| Baker, Sir Randolf L. (Dorset, N.) | Gordon, Hon. John Edward (Brighton) | Pretyman, Ernest George |
| Barnston, Harry | Hamilton, C. G. C. (Ches., Altrincham) | Pryce-Jones, Colonel E. |
| Beach, Hon. Michael Hugh Hicks | Helmsley, Viscount | Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) |
| Been, Arthur Shirley (Plymouth) | Henderson, Major H. (Berks, Abingdon) | Sanders, Robert Arthur |
| Bens, Ion Hamilton (Greenwich) | Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield) | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
| Bennett-Goldney, Francis | Hope, Major J. A. (Midlothian) | Spear, Sir John Ward |
| Boles, Lieut.-Colonel Dennis Fortescue | Horne, W. E. (Surrey, Guildford) | Stanley, Hon. G. F. (Preston) |
| Boscawen, Sir Arthur S. T. Griffith- | Jardine, Ernest (Somerset, East) | Starkey, John R. |
| Bridgeman, William Clive | Kerr-Smiley, Peter Kerr | Sykes, Sir Mark (Hull, Central) |
| Bull, Sir William James | Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement | Talbot, Lord Edmund |
| Burn, Colonel C. R. | Law, Rt. Hon. A. Sonar (Bootle) | Thynne, Lord Alexander |
| Campbell, Capt. Duncan F. (Ayr, N.) | Lewisham, Viscount | Touche, George Alexander |
| Campion, W. R. | Lloyd, George Ambrose (Stafford, W.) | Tryon Captain George Clement |
| Cassel, Felix | Lloyd. George Butler (Shrewsbury) | Walker, Col. William Hall |
| Cator, John | M'Calmont, Major Robert C. A. | Weston, Colonel J. W. |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | M'Neill, Ronald (Kent, St. Augustine's) | Wheler, Granville C. H. |
| Chaloner, Colonel R. G. W. | Malcolm, Ian | White, Major G. D. (Lancs., Southport) |
| Coates, Major Sir Edward Feetham | Mason, James F. (Windsor) | Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset, W.) |
| Craig, Ernest (Cheshire, Crewe) | Meysey-Thompson, E. C. | Willoughby, Major Hon. Claud |
| Craig, Captain James (Down, E.) | Mills, Hon. Charles Thomas | Winterton, Earl |
| Craig, Norman (Kent, Thanet) | Morrison-Bell, Capt. E. F. (Ashburton) | Wood, Hon. E. F. L. (Yorks, Ripon) |
| Craik, Sir Henry | Morrison-Bell, Major A. C. (Honiton) | Worthington-Evans, L. |
| Crichton-Stuart, Lord Ninian | Mount, William Arthur | Younger, Sir George |
| Dairymple, Viscount | Neville, Reginald J. N. | |
| Denison-Pender, J. C. | Newman, John R. P. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr. Hunt and Mr. F. Hall (Dulwich). |
| Duncannon, Viscount | Newton, Harry Kottingham |
§ Question put accordingly; "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again."
§ 7.0 A.M.
§ Mr. NORMAN CRAIGOn a point of Order, Sir. Is it not a fact that after the Motion was put the right hon. Gentleman asked leave to withdraw the Motion and that
| Division No. 170.] | AYES. | [7.4 a.m. |
| Anson, Rt. Hon. Sir William R. | Fitzroy, Hon. Edward A. | O'Neill, Hon. A. E. B. (Antrim, Mid) |
| Archer-Shee, Major Martin | Gilmour, Captain John | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington) |
| Ashley, Wilfrid W. | Glazebrook, Captain Philip K. | Perkins, Walter Frank |
| Baird, John Lawrence | Gordon, Hon. John Edward (Brighton) | Pollock, Ernest Murray |
| Baker, Sir Randall L. (Dorset, N.) | Hall, Frederick (Dulwich) | Pretyman, Ernest George |
| Barnston, Harry | Hamilton, C. G. C. (Ches., Altrincham) | Pryce-Jones, Col. E. |
| Beach, Hon. Michael Hugh Hicks | Helmsley, Viscount | Roberts. S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) |
| Benn, Arthur Shirley (Plymouth) | Henderson, Major H. (Berks, Abingdon) | Sanders, Robert A. |
| Benn, Ion Hamilton (Greenwich) | Hope James Fitzalan (Sheffield) | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
| Bennett-Goldney, Francis | Horne, Edgar (Surrey, Guildford) | Spear, Sir John Ward |
| Boles, Lieut.-Col. Dennis Fortescue | Hunt, Rowland | Stanley, Hon. G. F. (Preston) |
| Boscawen, Sir Arthur S. T. Griffith- | Jardine, Ernest (Somerset, East) | Starkey, John Ralph |
| Bridgeman, William Clive | Kerr-Smiley, Peter Kerr | Sykes, Sir Mark (Hull, Central) |
| Bull, Sir William James | Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement | Talbot, Lord Edmund |
| Burn, Colonel C. R. | Law, Rt. Hon. A. Bonar (Bootle) | Thynne, Lord Alexander |
| Campbell, Captain Duncan F. (Ayr, N.) | Lewisham, Viscount | Touche, George Alexander |
| Campion, W. R. | Lloyd, George Ambrose (Stafford, W.) | Tryon, Captain George Clement |
| Cassel, Felix | Lloyd, George Butler (Shrewsbury) | Walker, Col. William Hall |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | M'Calmont, Major Robert C. A. | Weston, Colonel J. W. |
| Chaloner, Col. R. G. W. | M'Neild, Ronald (Kent, St. Augustine's) | Wheler, Granville, C. H. |
| Coates, Major Sir Edward Feetham | Malcolm, Ian | White, Major G. D. (Lancs., Southport) |
| Craig, Ernest (Cheshire, Crewe) | Mason, James F. (Windsor) | Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.) |
| Craig, Captain James (Down, E.) | Meysey-Thompson, E. C. | Willoughby, Major Hon. Claud |
| Craig, Norman (Kent, Thanet) | Mills, Hon. Charles Thomas | Winterton, Earl |
| Craik, Sir Henry | Morrison-Bell, Capt. E. F. (Ashburton) | Wood, Hon. E. F. L. (Yorks, Ripon) |
| Crichton-Stuart, Lord Ninian | Morrison-Bell, Major A. C. (Honiton) | Worthington-Evans, L. |
| Dairymple, Viscount | Mount, William Arthur | Younger, Sir George |
| Denison-Pender, J. C. | Neville, Reginald J. N. | |
| Duncannon, Viscount | Newman, John R. P. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Major |
| Eyres-Monsell, Bolton M. | Newton, Harry Kottingham | Hope and Mr. Cator. |
| Fisher, Rt. Hon. W. Hayes |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Dublin, Harbour) | Davies, Timothy (Lincs., Louth) | Havelock-Allan, Sir Henry |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Dawes, James Arthur | Hayden, John Patrick |
| Addison, Dr. Christopher | Delany, William | Hayward, Evan |
| Allen, A. A. (Dumbartonshire) | Denman, Hon. Richard Douglas | Hazleton, Richard |
| Allen, Rt. Hon. Charles P. (Stroud) | Devlin, Joseph | Helme, Sir Norval Watson |
| Arnold, Sydney | Donelan, Captain A. | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) |
| Baker, H. T. (Accrington) | Doris, William | Henry, Sir Charles |
| Barnes, George N. | Duffy, William J. | Herbert, General Sir Ivor (Mon. S.) |
| Barton, William | Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) | Higham, John Sharp |
| Beauchamp, Sir Edward | Elverston, Sir Harold | Hinds, John |
| Beck, Arthur Cecil | Esmonde, Dr. John (Tipperary, N.) | Hobhouse, Rt. Hon. Charles E. H. |
| Benn, W. W. (T. Hamlets, St. George) | Esmonde, Sir Thomas (Wexford, N.) | Hogge, James Myles |
| Bentham, George Jockson | Essex, Sir Richard Walter | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey |
| Black, Arthur W. | Falconer, James | Hughes, Spencer Leigh |
| Boland, John Pius | Fenwick, Rt. Hon. Charles | Illingworth, Percy H. |
| Booth, Frederick Handel | Ferens, Rt. Hon. Thomas Robinson | John, Edward Thomas |
| Bowerman, C. W. | French, Peter | Jones, Edgar R. (Merthyr Tydvil) |
| Boyle, Daniel (Mayo, North) | Field, William | Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) |
| Brady, Patrick Joseph | Fiennes, Hon. Eustace Edward | Jones, J. Towyn (Carmarthen, East) |
| Brocklehurst, W. B. | Fitzgibbon, John | Jones, W. S. Glyn- (T. H'mts., Stepney) |
| Brunner, John F. L. | Flavin, Michael Joseph | Jewett, Frederick William |
| Bryce John Annan | France, Gerald Ashburner | Joyce, Michael |
| Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Gladstone, W. G. C. | Keating, Matthew |
| Cawley, Harold T. (Lancs., Heywood) | Goldstone, Frank | Kellaway, Frederick George |
| Chancellor, Henry George | Greig, Colonel J. W. | Kelly, Edward |
| Chapple, Dr. William Allen | Griffith, Ellis Jones | Kilbride, Denis |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Guest, Hon. Frederick E. (Dorset, E) | King, Joseph |
| Clough, William | Gulland, John William | Lambert, Richard (Wilts, Cricklade) |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | Gwynn, Stephen Lucius (Galway) | Lardner, James C. R. |
| Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Hackett, John | Lawson, Sir W. (Cumb'rld, Cockerm'th) |
| Croaks, William | Hall, Frederick (Yorks, Normanton) | Leach, Charles |
| Crumley, Patrick | Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | Levy, Sir Maurice |
| Cullinan, John | Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) | Lewis, Rt. Hon. John Herbert |
| Dalziel, Rt. Hon. Sir J. H. (Kirkcaldy) | Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, West) | London, Thomas |
| Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N.E.) | Lycil, Charles Henry |
§ therefore the Question before the House is whether the House do grant leave to withdraw?
§ The DEPUTY-CHAIRMAN (Mr. Maclean)Leave was refused, and the Question I have put is the correct Question.
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 88; Noes, 194.
| Lynch, Arthur Alfred | O'Kelly, Edward P. (Wicklow, W.) | Russell, Rt. Hon. Thomas W. |
| Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) | O'Malley, William | Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees) |
| McGhee, Richard | O'Neill, Dr. Charles (Armagh, S.) | Scanlan, Thomas |
| Macnamara, Rt. Hon. Dr. T. J. | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | Scott, A. MacCallum (Glas., Bridgeton) |
| Macpherson, James Ian | O'Shee, James John | Seely, Rt. Hon. Colonel J. E. B. |
| MacVeagh, Jeremiah | O'Sullivan, Timothy | Sheehy, David |
| M'Curdy, Charles Albert | Palmer, Godfrey Mark | Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir John Allsebrook |
| McKenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald | Parker, James (Halifax) | Smith, Albert (Lancs., Clitheroe) |
| M'Laren, Hon. F.W.S. (Lincs., Spalding) | Phillips, John (Longford, S.) | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.) |
| M'Neill, Ronald (Kent, St. Augustine's) | Pointer, Joseph | Strauss, Edward A. (Southwark, West) |
| Marshall, Arthur Harold | Pollard, Sir George H. | Sutherland, John E. |
| Meagher, Michael | Ponsonhy, Arthur A. W. H. | Sutton, John E. |
| Meehan, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.) | Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) | Tennant, Harold John |
| Meehan, Patrick J. (Queen's Co., Leix) | Priestley, Sir Arthur (Grantham) | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton) |
| Middlebrook, William | Priestley, Sir W. E. B. (Bradford, E.) | Toulmin, Sir George |
| Millar, James Duncan | Pringle, William M. R. | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Molloy, Michael | Raffan, Peter Wilson | Ure, Rt. Hon. Alexander |
| Montagu, Hon. E. S. | Rea, Rt. Hon. Russell (South Shields) | Verney, Sir Harry |
| Morgan, George Hay | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough) | Watt, Henry A. |
| Morrell, Philip | Reddy, Michael | White, J. Dundas (Glasgow, Tradeston) |
| Morison, Hector | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) | Write, Sir Luke (Yorks, E.R.) |
| Muldoon, John | Redmond, William (Clare, E.) | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Munro, Robert | Redmond, William Archer (Tyrone, E.) | Williams, John (Glamorgan) |
| Murphy, Martin J. | Rendall, Atheistan | Williams, Penry (Middlesbrough) |
| Murray, Captain Hon. Arthur C. | Richardson, Thomas (Whitehaven) | Winfrey, Richard |
| Needham, Christopher T. | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) | Wing, Thomas Edward |
| Nolan, Joseph | Roberts, George H. (Norwich) | Young, William (Perth, East) |
| Nugent, Sir Walter Richard | Robertson, John M. (Tyneside) | |
| O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Robinson, Sidney | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr. Wm. Jones and Mr. Webb. |
| O'Doherty, Philip | Rowlands, James | |
| O'Dowd, John | Rowntree, Arnold |