§ 19. Mr. HORNERasked whether the right hon. Gentleman would receive a representative deputation on behalf of the Royal Irish Constabulary pensioners, subscribers to the Constabulary Force Fund, to hear their views upon the question of having the fund wound up; and, if so, would he fix a date and place?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe fund is being wound up by the natural process of paying claims upon it according as they accrue. It cannot be diverted from its original purpose without injustice to the widows and orphans for whose benefit it was created by Statute. No useful object would therefore be served by receiving a deputation of subscribers as suggested.
§ Mr. HORNERIs the right hon. Gentleman not aware from correspondence and resolutions that a great deal of distrust and discontent is felt with regard to how the fund is dealt with, and would not the receiving of the deputation suggested in the question be the best way to allay that distrust and discontent, instead of positively refusing it?
§ Mr. BIRRELLI have really answered many questions on this subject. As to the anxiety about this fund, it is the desire of a number of persons who subscribe to divide this money among themselves rather than postpone it to the day they die, when their widows and orphans would get the benefit.
Captain CRAIGWill the right hon. Gentleman, in view of his statement that the misapprehension is entirely due to ignorance on the part of those who make the stir in the matter, consider whether it would not be possible to circulate among the police force a statement of the actual circumstances of the fund, and how it is dealt with?
§ Mr. BIRRELLI should be very glad to do anything to prevent my having a series of these questions, and I think there is a good deal to be said for the suggestion of the hon. and gallant Gentleman.
§ 23. Mr. GINNELLasked the Chief Secretary for Ireland if the representations he has received against winding-up and distributing the Irish Constabulary Force Fund have not all emanated from officers and officials, will he say from whom they have emanated?
§ Mr. BIRRELLApart from official reports, I have not received any representations against the winding up of the fund from officers or officials. I have, however, received strong protests from subscribers and their wives against the injustice to widows and orphans of diverting the fund from its original purpose.
§ 24. Mr. GINNELLasked the right hon. Gentleman if, in view of the complaints of contributors to the Irish Constabulary Force Fund that the fund is being administered for the benefit of officers and officials at the expense of the men, he will state the normal payments into and receipts from the fund by the families of officers, officials, and men, respectively, with the average salary of each of those classes?
§ Mr. BIRRELLNo officials except officers, head, and other constables of the Royal Irish Constabulary contribute to or receive anything from this fund. The rate of contribution per cent. on pay and pension is the same for officers and men, and the rate per cent, for gratuities to families of both ranks is likewise the same. In the accounts of the fund the amounts received as contributions from subscribing officers and men, respectively, are not distinguished. In the year 1911–12 177 claims were paid, amounting to £18,246, of which £3,785 was paid to families of officers, and in 1910–11, 143 claims, amounting to £15,362, were paid, of which sum the families of officers received £2,639. The total receipts from officers and men serving and on pension were in these two years £4,714 and £5,030, respectively. The salaries of the various grades of officers and men are set out in the Estimates, but the average salaries of the various classes of subscribers to the fund is not known.
§ 25. Mr. GINNELLasked how the Irish Constabulary Force Fund is invested; what annual interest is received on it; at what period is it estimated that, in the natural decrease of claims, the interest and income will meet all demands on the fund; and whether subscribers to the fund not fulfilling technical requirements will be left in want, while the money to which they have contributed is lying idle?
§ Mr. BIRRELLAs regards the first two paragraphs of the question, I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to the question of the hon. Member for South Tyrone on 27th November last. I am unable at present to say whether at any future time the demands on the fund can be met from the interest and subscriptions. The statutory trusts of the fund are to provide gratuities for the widows and orphans of deceased subscribers, and the liberal scale of gratuities awarded is based on this limited liability.
§ Mr. GINNELLHas the right hon. Gentleman considered the fact that this fund was set up on a principle now obsolete, with the result that many men who during their lives contributed to it died without anyone belonging to them benefiting by it?
§ Mr. BIRRELLI cannot alter the scale or plan upon which this beneficent operation was set going; and I think it would be most unjust to those who have subscribed and whose widows and orphans may and will eventually receive great 1484 benefits to alter it at this stage of its history.
§ Mr. GINNELLIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that the men who leave no widows and whose children have attained a certain age benefit nothing during their lives, and the families benefit nothing?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe families will benefit on their death.
§ Mr. GINNELLNo.
§ 26. Mr. GINNELLasked what sum is paid out of the Irish Constabulary Force Fund to the widow of a district inspector who has served forty years and dies ten years after retiring, and what sum to the widow of a constable who has served thirty years and dies ten years after retiring?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe exact amount of the gratuities payable in the cases referred to cannot be determined from the particulars given in the question. The sums payable in each case would be 5 per cent, on the total amount of pay drawn during service and ½ per cent, of the total amount of pension received. These amounts would be increased according to the number of children entitled to benefit under the rules of the fund.