HC Deb 27 January 1913 vol 47 cc984-5
72. Mr. J. WARD

asked the Secretary for Scotland whether his attention has been called to the case of a boy eight years old being tried before the Northern Police Court, Glasgow, charged with begging for his Christmas tree, and ordered to be detained in a reformatory prison for eight years; and, if so, what action he proposes to take in this case?

The SECRETARY for SCOTLAND (Mr. McKinnon Wood)

My attention was called to this case, and I made inquiries about it recently. The order was for eight years' detention, not in a prison, but in an industrial school. Such an order is not punitive, either in intention or in fact. The magistrate has informed me that he took the course which he did as being the best in the interests of the boy himself, and I am not disposed to interfere.

Sir W. BYLES

A boy of eight years is sent to prison for eight years for begging, and you are not going to interfere?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

He has not been sent to prison, but to an industrial school.

Lord ROBERT CECIL

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman to be good enough to repeat his last answers, as they have not reached this side?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

My answer was that he has not been sent to prison, but to an industrial school.

Sir W. BYLES

For eight years?

Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTT

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the father of this child is supporting a family of ten persons on 22s. per week, and if the sending of this boy to an industrial school is in the best interests of this child? Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether he has taken into consideration what can be done in the best interests of the other children?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

I am afraid I cannot answer that question.

Lord ROBERT CECIL

Is the House to understand that this child was merely begging in the street, and has been sentenced in consequence to eight years?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

The magistrate informs me that from the evidence that was brought before him in regard to the child's surroundings he thought it in the best interests of the child that he should be dealt with in this way.

Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTT

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the report of the police investigation was that the father was a decent, hard-working man, earning 22s. per week, with a family of eight children?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

I cannot discuss the evidence.

Mr. WEDGWOOD

Is this the result of legislation for the benefit of the poor?

Lord ROBERT CECIL

Will the right hon. Gentleman consent to lay the evidence on the Table of the House?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

I do not know that the evidence is in a form in which I could do that.

Lord ROBERT CECIL

Is there no note taken of the evidence in Scotland before a magistrate?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

I would ask the Noble Lord to give me notice of that question.