54. Mr. MARK SYKESasked the Postmaster General whether, having regard to the recent dislocation of telephonic and telegraphic communication to and from the city of Hull caused by storms, and the consequent loss and inconvenience to merchants and traders, he will take steps to place the city of Hull in direct communication with the great centres of the country by underground cables?
§ The POSTMASTER-GENERAL (Mr. Herbert Samuel)The pipe between Leeds and Hull has already been laid to carry the necessary cable, and the work of drawing in the cable will be proceeded with as soon as possible. The matter has been delayed owing to the necessity of awaiting the completion of some experiments that have been made as to the most suitable type of cable. A conclusion on this point has only lately been reached.
§ Mr. ROBERT HARCOURTDoes the right hon. Gentleman say that the line from Leeds to Hull is much more important than one from Dundee to Edinburgh?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELI am dealing with that in reply to another question.
§ 56. Mr. J. M. HENDERSONasked the Postmaster-General when the underground telegraph routes were first authorised by Parliament; the dates of any subsequent authorisations; and what amount was authorised to be spent per annum?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELProvision was made hi the Post Office Vote for 1896–7 for the first section of an underground telegraph line between London and Birmingham; and sums for extensions of this line and for other underground telegraph lines have been voted each year since (except in 1900–1). The amount has varied with the urgency of the work and the state of public funds.
§ 57. Mr. J. M. HENDERSONasked the cost of laying the underground telegraph wires from London to Penzance and from London to Cardiff, respectively?
59 Mr. ROBERT HAR-COURTasked (1) what difference of principle justifies an underground telegraph line between Exeter and Penzance but not between Edinburgh and Dundee; what is the proportion of cost to revenue in each case; (2) what special necessity induced him to undertake during the current financial year extensions of the underground telegraph system from Romford to Chelmsford and from St. Margaret's to Dover; what were the gross telegraphic revenue and cost of extension in respect of each district on the basis of figures given with regard to Dundee and Aberdeen; (3) why there is an underground telegraph line from London to Churchill via Marlborough, but not from London to Dundee via Rosyth?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELThe underground cables mentioned in these questions have been laid with a view to connecting with the submarine cables. The route by way of Marlborough, Exeter, and Penzance to Weston and Porthcurno connects with the submarine cables to America, Africa, Australia, New Zealand, the East and the Far East. The cable to Romford and Chelmsford will be continued to Bacton and Lowestoft, and will there connect with the submarine cables to Germany and Holland. The cable to St. Margaret's Bay and Abbotscliff by way of Dover connects with the submarine cables to France and Belgium. The revenue and importance of the whole foreign and Colonial telegraph business of the United Kingdom must be taken into account in considering the necessity for these lines. The cost of the Western underground, including the spurs to Weston and Plymouth, was £456,633, exclusive of headquarter charges. The cost of the extension from Bristol to Cardiff was £79,491. The London-Bristol section is common to both routes.
§ Mr. R. HARCOURTIs not the fact that it is telegraphic communication to the submarine base at Dundee and the naval "base at Rosyth an important factor in the matter?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELIt is not so important a matter as maintaining settled communication between the United Kingdom and the rest of the world.
§ Mr. J. M. HENDERSONHave any of these towns contributed, or been invited to contribute, towards the cost?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELNot that I am aware of. The suggestion might be made as a possible means of removing the difficulty, but I confess I have not a very strong anticipation that such a suggestion will be accepted.
§ 58. Mr. R. HARCOURTasked the Postmaster-General if he will communicate to the chambers of commerce of Dundee, Aberdeen, and Arbroath copies of the map of underground telegraph routes which he has placed in the Library of this House?
§ 65. Mr. PIRIEasked the Postmaster-General, in view of the exposure of the partial and one-sided way in which the installation of the underground cables has been undertaken by his Department, which is afforded by the study of the small map placed by him in the Library, if he will cause copies of the same to be either issued as a Parliamentary Paper or else distributed to the Members of Parliament for Scotland?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELI will send copies to the members of commerce mentioned in Question 58, and to the hon. bers who formed part of the recent deputation on this subject.
§ Mr. PIRIEIt is worth while making such a small pecuniary saving, seeing that the cost of each map is only 4½d? Surely it is not worth the while of the Post Office to omit to send the maps to all Scottish Members in order to effect that saving?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELIt was not a question of saving. Many hon. Members are not anxious to receive more documents than are necessary, and so we thought it would be sufficient to send the maps to those Members who we know are directly interested.
§ Major ANSTRUTHER-GRAYWill the right hon. Gentleman send me the map?
§ Mr. PIRIEBut in view of the exposure of the partial and one-sided way in which the installation has been carried out, would it not be well to circulate the maps to all Scottish Members?
§ Mr. WHYTEWill the right hon. Gentleman send the maps to all Members whose constituencies are directly or indirectly connected?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELIf it is desired the maps shall be sent to all Scottish Members, it shall be done.
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELA copy of the map will be placed in the Library.
§ 61. Mr. R. HARCOURTasked the Post master-General why there is a special section of underground telegraph route to Watford and St. Albans?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELThe underground telegraph line to Watford and St. Albans was laid to accommodate telegraph circuits up till then erected on road and railway routes, and was rendered necessary owing to the congestion of wires on the main routes out of London and the impossibility of finding room for additional overhead wires. The poles on the road were urgently required for long distance telephone trunk lines. Incidentally removal of the telegraph lines from the railways resulted in a saving of heavy annual payments to the railway companies.
§ Mr. R. HARCOURTDoes the right hon. Gentleman really say that a line starting at Watford is more important than one from Edinburgh to Dundee?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELIt is not a question of relative importance. It is a question of how many lines can be accommodated on the roads leading out of London.
§ Mr. J. M. HENDERSONHave these underground communications in England been in respect of marine cables and nothing else?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELNot all, but those about which I have been asked have been. We have been fortunate in being able to persuade the Treasury to spend sufficient money to enable us to lay underground cables to Glasgow and Edinburgh.
§ Mr. J. M. HENDERSONThere are none beyond these two cities?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELAnd there are none in Ireland as well as in large parts of England.
§ 62. Mr. R. HARCOURTasked why, in addition to the main underground telegraph route passing through Leighton Buzzard, another line has been deflected Westward for the sole purpose, as it would appear from his map, of serving the town 36 of Aylesbury; and what proportion the cost bears to the gross revenue for this section?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELThe cable to which my hon. Friend refers is the second main underground telegraph cable to Birmingham and the North. It was constructed to supplement the first cable, and the choice of route through Aylesbury had no connection with the amount of the Aylesbury telegraph traffic. The deflection was rendered advisable in order to enable a number of road telegraph lines and short telephone trunk lines to be taken into the cable.
§ Mr. R. HARCOURTI hope to raise this subject on the Motion for Adjournment to-night.
§ 64. Mr. PIRIEasked whether an extension of the underground telegraph lines from Leeds to Hull was due to any representations on behalf of the fish trade of Hull; and, if so, why the fishing interests of Aberdeen and the East Coast of Scotland should be penalised in favour of rival fishing interests?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELRepresentations for an extension of the underground telegraph system to Hull were made to my predecessor by the Hull Chamber of Commerce, which is interested perhaps more in the shipping industry than in the fish trade. I may mention that the interruptions in the case of Hull have been far more serious than in the case of Aberdeen, and that the cost of the telegraph extension to Hull is much less than it would be to Aberdeen.
§ Mr. PIRIEDoes it not depend upon where you start from? What point does the right hon. Gentleman think the centre of the extension should be?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELThe underground telegraph system already extended to Leeds, and the extension to Hull was a comparatively minor matter compared with the extension of the underground telegraph system from Edinburgh to-Aberdeen.
§ Mr. PIRIEWill the right hon. Gentleman explain why he made the extension to Hull and not to Warrington, which is a point on the main line?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELBecause when we were asked to extend to Hull we already had an underground cable to Leeds.
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELBecause of the importance of the telegraph traffic of of the whole of the West Riding, and also because Leeds was on the main route to Newcastle.