HC Deb 08 January 1913 vol 46 cc1180-3
39. Mr. SNOWDEN

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he is now prepared to grant the petition of the surveyors of Customs and Excise of Excise origin for a reconsideration of their case, with a view to the Grant of the retrospective application of the new salary scale as from 1st April, 1909, when the two services were amalgamated, the right to such retrospective application having been conceded to other grades in the service by the amalgamation committee?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

I must refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave him on this subject on the 11th ultimo.

40. Mr. SNOWDEN

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if the officer of Customs and Excise in charge of the Excise Station No. 11, Edinburgh collection, committed suicide on 6th December; if he was, from the date of entering the public service in 1907, attached to the Customs Department up to 25th July, 1912, when he was transferred to Edinburgh and put through a short course of instruction in Excise work; if, after a short experience on general Excise work, he was put in charge of the 11th Excise Station on 3rd December, which is an important brewery station; if the officer had ever before had charge of breweries; if he is aware that this station had been vacant for nine months, eight separate officers having had at times temporary charge of the station; that the work was in consequence much in arrear; and that the officer in question, though on the testimony of his superiors a thoroughly capable man at work in which he had had experience, was driven to despair by being put to work which it was impossible for a Customs' trained officer to perform; whether he is aware that there are many cases at present where officers, surveyors, and collectors without Excise training are in charge of Excise work, and that enormous mental worry is being suffered and the efficiency of administration being impaired in consequence; and, for the sake of the men and in the interest of the public service, will he instruct the Board of Customs and Excise to stop the practice of putting men to duties for which they are not equipped?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

Mr. Williams, who committed suicide on 6th December, was an officer of Customs origin who entered the service in June, 1907. In July, 1912, he was transferred to Edinburgh and given instructions in Excise work, including the survey of breweries. After instruction he was employed in assisting or officiating in various stations until 24th November, when he went on private leave. On return to duty on 3rd December he was assigned to Edinburgh 11th Station, consisting of brewery and general business. He had not previously been in charge of brewery business. The 11th Station had been without a permanent officer for eight months, but temporary officers had been employed and there was no serious accumulation of arrears. I cannot accept the suggestion that the work was responsible for Mr. Williams' action. In reply to the latter part of his question I beg to refer the hon. Member to the replies which I gave him on the 11th ultimo. I may add, however, that, speaking of the service as a whole, the Board of Customs and Excise are confident that where it is necessary to employ men, whether of Customs or Excise origin, on work hitherto assigned to the other branch of the service, the men so employed will prove competent to perform the new duties without detriment to the efficiency of the service or to themselves.

Mr. SNOWDEN

Does the right hon. Gentleman mean to say that the work of the station was not in arrear, and it is reasonable to believe that a station which had been without a permanent officer for nine months, with eight temporary men in charge, could have the work up to date?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

I am assured by the Customs and Excise authorities that there was no accumulation of work; and that that certainly was not responsible for the poor man's suicide.

Mr. SNOWDEN

If the officer did not commit suicide because he was overwhelmed with the work, why did he do it?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

I can only give the hon. Member the information I have got. I have made personal inquiries into the matter, and I was assured that there was no arrears of that kind at all, and that there was nothing out of the ordinary. He committed suicide within three days after he had entered upon his duties.

Mr. SNOWDEN

Has the Board of Customs and Excise had any report from Edinburgh in regard to the suicide?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

I cannot say. I should like to have notice of that question.

41. Mr. SNOWDEN

asked the number of appointments to surveyor ships of Customs and Excise during the last nine months from officers late of Customs and late of Excise, respectively; and whether by such appointments the proportion of promotions to survey or ships of officers of Customs origin was increased far beyond the normal expectation under pre-amalgamation conditions to the detriment of the prospects of officers of Excise origin who otherwise would have succeeded to supervisorships?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

There have been 104 officers of Customs origin actually appointed to surveyor ships during the last nine months. No such actual appointments of officers of Excise origin have been made. As regards the latter part of the question, I can only refer the hon. Member to my answer to a question which he put to me on the 5th ultimo.

Mr. SNOWDEN

Seeing that it is admitted in that reply that 104 Customs officers have taken posts to which Excise officers were looking forward, and would have been promoted to if the amalgamation had not taken place, is not this a serious loss of prospects for the Excise service owing to the amalgamation?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

If that is so, and it puts the Excise at a disadvantage at present, the disadvantage will be redressed in the future.

42. Mr. SNOWDEN

asked how many first-class examining officers of Customs have been selected for appointment as un attached surveyors of Customs and Excise; how many Customs port clerks have been selected for a similar position after a competition limited to their own grade, at which only thirty-six men competed; and how many collectorships formerly Excise collections have been filled by officials of Customs origin and how many collector-ships formerly Customs have been filled by officials of Excise origin?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

There have been 104 first-class examining officers selected and appointed, and twelve port clerks have been selected for appointment. Sixteen collections (eight Customs and eight Excise) have been combined or are in process of being combined into eight joint Customs and Excise collections. To these joint collections have been appointed five collectors and one assistant collector of Customs origin and three collectors and two assistant collectors of Excise origin.