§ 39. Mr. MUNRO-FERGUSONasked the President of the Board of Agriculture whether he is aware that manure from the quarantine sheds in Glasgow and Dundee is being sold or offered for sale; what is meant by disinfecting farmyard manure; whether he is aware that the directors of the Highland and Agricultural Society have unanimously expressed the opinion that it is not possible to disinfect manure so completely as to give adequate protection against its carrying the infection of foot-and-mouth disease; and why it is necessary that cattle should be isolated for three weeks after they have left the quarantine if the manure produced by them in quarantine is free from disease?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANThe answer to the first and third parts of the question is in the affirmative. Manure is not removed from the wharves until all the animals have been closely examined by a veterinary inspector of the Board and found to be free from foot-and-mouth disease. It is then thoroughly mixed with quicklime before removal. The cattle are isolated for three weeks as a safeguard against the spread of infection in case disease which may have been in the incubative stage during the period of quarantine should afterwards develop. Although there is no evidence to support the supposition that manure produced by animals in the incubative stage of the disease is infective, it is desirable as a precaution that the manure should be disinfected in the manner which I have described before it is removed from the wharves.
§ Mr. STANIERDoes not the right hon. Gentleman think it would be very much better to alter the arrangements?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANNo, I do not think that is in the least necessary. I am advised by my experts that safeguards as to animals in Scotland are fully secured by these arrangements.
§ 42. Mr. LUNDONasked the President of the Board of Agriculture if he is now in a position to make a definite statement regarding the restrictions on store cattle from Munster and Connaught?
§ 52. Captain MURRAYasked the President of the Board of Agriculture whether he is in a position to make any statement regarding the importation of Irish store cattle into Scotland and England?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANSubject to the completion of arrangements with the Irish Department, the Regulations affecting the importation of Irish cattle into Great Britain will be varied as from Saturday next by an Order which will be issued to-morrow, reducing the period of detention at the ports of arrival from four days to twelve hours from the time of the landing of the cargo, during which they are to be rested, fed, watered, and inspected. These cattle will be permitted to be removed from the landing place either to a slaughter-house for slaughter or the farms to which they are consigned, where they will have to be under observation for a period of twenty-one days—provided, of course, that the whole of the animals forming part of the same cargo have been examined and certified free from foot-and-mouth disease.
§ Mr. T. M. HEALYIs no distinction to be made in the case of cattle from Munster and from Connaught, where there has been no disease for thirty years, and cattle from countries where there has been disease within a month?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANI have explained several times that it is impossible to make this arrangement. The Irish Department find it quite impracticable in regard to the traffic of animals to and fro, and as it is impracticable I do not propose to embark upon it.
§ Mr. T.M. HEALYHas the right hon. Gentleman communicated with the Great Southern and Western Railway or with the Midland and Great Western Railway as to whether it is possible practically to insure that cattle shipped either from Connaught or from Munster ports should not in any way be commingled with the cattle from any other district?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANNo. I have had no communication with these railway companies. It is not my business to do so. The Irish Department will do that. The main cattle traffic is not done from the ports in Munster. The main cattle traffic from Munster and Connaught, I am informed, is through Dublin.
§ Mr. T. M. HEALYWho was it who gave the right hon. Gentleman the information that cattle from county Cork went through Dublin?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANI did not say county Cork; I said Munster, and the information came from the Irish Department.
§ Mr. FIELDHas the right hon. Gentleman made up his mind as to the twelve hours' detention of all cattle, and will he hold out any hope of reducing the twelve hours' detention on this side?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANIn answer to a question last week, I pointed out that we must have some experience of the twelve hours' arrangement before I can make any promise as to the future.
§ Mr. KILBRIDEAre we to understand that when the new Regulations come into force, store cattle, after twelve hours' detention and inspection here, will not be allowed to be shown in markets and fairs in this country?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANNo, at the present stage I do not propose to throw open the markets in this way. I hope to do that at an early date. The change which I am making now is from four days to twelve hours—a considerable step in the right direction.
§ Mr. KILBRIDEAt what likely date will store cattle be allowed to be shown in the markets and fairs in this country?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANI cannot say.
§ Mr. T. M. HEALYDoes the right hon. Gentleman intend to convey, as regards Munster and Connaught cattle, that the Irish Department and the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. T. W. Russell) approve of his Regulations?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANIt is not a question for the approval or disapproval of the right hon. Gentleman. I have to act on my own responsibility.
§ 43. Mr. CRUMLEYasked the President of the Board of Agriculture if he can state 995 the number of pigs that died in transit between Irish ports and the English foreign wharfs since the embargo was placed on live pigs from Ireland; and is he aware that, for want of proper accommodation at the different lairages and the consequent exposure to cold, numbers died and exporters have suffered losses?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANDuring the last six months 273 pigs have died or been slaughtered in transit between Ireland and Great Britain, 487 have been slaughtered on arrival at Birkenhead and three at Glasgow on account of injuries or other causes. So far as the Board have been able to ascertain there have been no deaths on account of exposure at any British ports.
§ Mr. CRUMLEYNow that it is quite clear that there is no foot-and-mouth disease among pigs in Ireland, will the right hon. Gentleman permit them to be sent over to England and Scotland?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANI have already stated that I cannot make any change in the arrangements.
§ 44. Mr. GUINEYasked the President of the Board of Agriculture what steps, if any, are taken by his Department to prevent hay and straw, which has been brought into this country as packing materials for goods imported from countries where foot-and-mouth disease exists, being used for bedding or other purposes?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANThe Board have under consideration the issue of a notice to the principal importers of foreign merchandise inviting them to co-operate in preventing foreign hay and straw imported as packing material from being used as bedding for animals or for other agricultural purposes.
§ Mr. GUINEYAre there any regulations in force at present?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANThere is no regulation in force at present.
§ Mr. GUINEYWill the right hon. Gentleman consider that there is more chance of the disease being imported into England by foreign hay and straw than by hay and straw imported from Ireland?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANThis matter was fully inquired into by the Departmental Committee. I am prepared to abide by their findings.
§ Mr. T. M. HEALYCan those who are keenly interested in the matter have a Committee to inquire into the whole subject?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANThat does not arise out of this question.
§ 50. Mr. C. BATHURSTasked if it is, proposed to adopt any, and, if any, which of the recommendations of the Departmental Committee on Foot-and-Mouth Disease?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANI would refer the hon. Member to the answer which I gave to a similar question addressed to me by the hon. Member for the Barkston Ash Division on the 17th December last.
§ 53. Mr. C. BATHURSTasked the President of the Board of Agriculture whether his expert veterinary advisers have on further investigation and inquiry been able to identify any of the cattle diseases known in Ireland as timber tongue, noninfectious foot-and-mouth disease, or dirty mouth, said to be now prevalent in county Armagh; whether any of such diseases are known in other parts of the United Kingdom; and, if so, under what names?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANTimber tongue is known in Great Britain as actinomycosis. Non-infectious foot-and-mouth disease is, as I have already stated in answer to previous questions, unknown to the veterinary officers of the Board. The disease popularly known as dirty mouth has been found among cattle imported from Ireland, but, so far as the Board are aware, it is not prevalent in Great Britain.
§ Mr. C. BATHURSTIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that timber tongue was reported subsequently to the outbreak at Swords in Ireland, to have turned out to be foot-and-mouth disease?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANAccording to my recollection of the facts in the Swords case, timber tongue was the title given to the disease, not by a veterinery officer at all, but by some one not capable of giving a diagnosis of the disease.
§ Mr. RUNCIMANI express no opinion whatever upon that.
§ 59. Mr. LYNCHasked the Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture 997 (Ireland), whether restrictions on the export of pressed hay from Kilrush to English ports are still in force; and, if so, whether, in view of the fact that the area concerned is so remote from the localities where foot-and-mouth disease existed, and considering also the number of working men, farmers, and carriers, who depend on this trade, he can promise that the restrictions will be now removed?
§ Mr. RUSSELL (Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture, Ireland)The Department are informed by the Board of Agriculture and Fisheries that they are not at present prepared to modify the terms of their Order which prohibits the landing in Great Britain of hay or straw from Ireland.
§ Mr. LYNCHHas the right hon. Gentleman made any representation to his colleague in the English Board of Agriculture in regard to this matter with the object of inducing that Board to remove the restrictions?
§ Mr. RUSSELLWe are in communication with the English Department, and draft Orders are being considered by both Departments.
§ Mr. LYNCHDoes not it look like an absurdity to impose these restrictions in Clare, because you are dealing with a problem in another part of Ireland which is very remote from it?
§ 60. Mr. GUINEYasked the Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture (Ireland) what steps, if any, are taken by his Department to prevent hay and straw, which has been brought into Ireland as packing material for goods imported from foreign countries where foot-and-mouth disease exists, being used for bedding or other purposes where animals are liable to come into contact with them?
§ Mr. RUSSELLI shall be happy to hand the hon. Gentleman a copy of a Memorandum on this subject, which was widely circulated by the Department in October last.
§ Mr. GUINEYAre there any restrictions imposed with regard to this hay and straw packing?
§ Mr. RUSSELLNo; we have no power to impose any such restrictions.
§ Mr. GUINEYAre we to understand that there are no restrictions on the admission of hay and straw into Ireland, and 998 there are restrictions on its going out of Ireland?
§ Mr. KILBRIDEIs the right hon. Gentleman now satisfied that the outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease at Ballysax at the Curragh and Kildare was due to the fact that pigs were bedded with some straw packing from France, and also with straw bottle-envelopes from France, and is the Department in Ireland satisfied that the packing coming from France was the cause of the outbreak?
§ Mr. RUSSELLI stated more than a month ago that that was the opinion of the veterinary officers who superintended the work at Ballysax.
§ Mr. KILBRIDEWhat steps have you taken to prevent another outbreak from the same cause?
§ Mr. T. M. HEALYIs the British Government to keep us subject to outbreaks coming from France while the British Government will not allow our hay to be sent from places where there has been no disease for thirty years?
§ Mr. RUSSELLImmediately on the matter being investigated I communicated with the military authorities throughout the whole of Ireland and they undertook to see that all these materials would in future be burned.
§ Mr. T. M. HEALYWhy are they allowed in? Why do not you stop them as our hay is stopped coming into England?
§ 40. Mr. LYNCHasked whether, in regard to the outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease, any special efforts were made by the Department to discover the causes of the outbreak and to investigate thoroughly the etiology of the disease; whether, in the event of such investigations having been undertaken, the Department called in the co-operation of expert biologists outside the staff of the Department; whether any success was met with in the course of such labours, for instance, whether a specific microbe was identified as the immediate cause; and whether he will place upon the Table of the House a Paper giving details of such scientific work as is here indicated?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANThe answer to the first two parts of the question is in the affirmative. For detailed information as to the steps taken by the Board to investigate the etiology and pathology of foot- 999 and-mouth disease I would refer the hon. Member to the Minutes of Evidence given before the Departmental Committee appointed to inquire into foot-and-mouth disease (Cd. 6244 of 1912). The Annual Report of the Animals Division of the Board for the year 1911 (Cd. 6136 of 1912) also contains useful information on the subject. As I have already informed the House, a Committee of Inquiry is at the present time conducting further scientific investigations in India on behalf of the Board.
§ Mr. LYNCHIn view of the importance of the subject, will the right hon. Gentleman prepare a Special Paper bringing the information together in one compendious form, and lay it on the Table of the House as soon as possible?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANUp to the end of 1911 the whole of the information was drawn together by the Departmental Committee. Further information has been given in the Report of the Committee, and I will send the hon. Member copies of both.
§ Mr. STANIERCould we not have more up-to-date information than that contained in a Report eighteen months old?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANFoot-and-mouth disease has not changed in the last eighteen months. Any further information obtained by the Committee will be made public as soon as possible.