§ 49. Mr. GINNELLasked the Prime Minister, having regard to the provisions of Section 47 at the Irish Land Act, 1903, and to the promises of successive Governments that the bonus for land purchase provided thereby, and increased by the Act of 1909 subject to that Section, should be treated as an Imperial and not as an Irish charge, if he will explain why the outline of financial provisions issued with the Government of Ireland Bill debits Ireland with £761,000 as charges under the Land Purchase Acts, including £220,000 interest and sinking fund for the current year of the Land Purchase Aid Fund; if the Act and the promises to treat the Land Purchase Aid Fund as as Imperial charge are to be observed, will a fresh memorandum on that basis be issued; and what is the objection to embodying in the Bill words unequivocally treating it so?
§ Mr. GINNELLMr. Speaker, this question was put down because we want to get on record a deliberate answer from the Prime Minister.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe hon. Member will probably not be successful.
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELThe Prime Minister has asked me to answer this question. As under the Bill land purchase will be a reserved service the charges in question will fall on the United Kingdom Exchequer until the readjustment of financial relations provided for in Clause 26. I am not aware of any promise that in the event of Home Rule the United Kingdom Exchequer would continue permanently to be responsible for the whole of these charges. The fact that the charges in respect of the Land Purchase Aid Fund are not included in the purchase annuities does not remove them from the category of Imperial expenditure on Irish account, in the definition of which the principle recomended in paragraph 16 of the Primrose Report has been followed.
§ Mr. GINNELLIf the Land Purchase Aid Fund is to be an Imperial charge why is it included in the alleged deficit; and will it continue to be included in that alleged deficit until the whole of it, with interest, has been cleared off by Imperial taxes imposed upon Ireland?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELWhat I said in answer to the question was that the charges in question will fall on the United Kingdom Exchequer until the readjustment of the financial relations provided for in Clause 26. That is necessarily so, because they are a reserved service. Certainly they are regarded as being included in the Imperial expenditure on Irish account, which results in the present deficit.
§ Mr. GINNELLWill the right hon. Gentleman answer the question on the Paper: whether this Land Purchase Aid Fund is to be an Imperial or an Irish Charge? That surely is a plain question.
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELNo. I am afraid it is not a plain question. It depends on what you mean by an Imperial or an Irish charge. It is a charge which is paid for out of the Imperial Exchequer, but it is debited, as a matter of bookkeeping, as an Irish charge.
§ Mr. W. O'BRIENAs a matter of fact, is not this charge for the bonus debited against Ireland at the present moment under' the financial scheme of the Irish Bill, and is it not a fact that it was deliberately agreed upon by both sides of this House in 1903, that the bonus was not to be a charge against Ireland but against the Imperial Exchequer?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELThis charge always has been regarded as a charge of Imperial expenditure on Irish account in the Treasury White Paper and in the Report of the Primrose Committee, and is so regarded in the finance of the Home Rule Bill.
§ Mr. GINNELLThis is the third time the question has appeared on the Paper. May I ask the Prime Minister whether this is to be an Imperial or an Irish charge?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI have nothing to add to what my right hon. Friend has said.
§ Mr. GINNELLDoes not the Prime Minister see that this question has so far 825 been evaded, and will he give a direct answer one way or the other?
§ Mr. W. O'BRIENWill the Prime Minister kindly see that in the land purchase legislation of next Session Ireland shall be relieved from this charge which avowedly the Parliament of 1903 intended to be an Imperial charge?
§ The PRIME MINISTERWhen we come to that legislation all matters of consideration will be included.
§ Mr. GINNELLrose—
§ Mr. SPEAKERWe have pursued the subject far enough to-day.