§ 42. Mr. STANIERasked the Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture (Ireland) whether he has any knowledge of the experiments being conducted at the Glasnevin College regarding foot-and-mouth disease; whether any safeguards are being taken to prevent the disease spreading from the college; whether they are sterilising hay and working on the culture of the disease; and whether any of the outbreaks are connected with the experiments?
§ Mr. T. W. RUSSELL (Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture, Ireland)No experiments of the nature referred to have been or are being carried out at the Albert Agricultural College, Glasnevin.
§ Mr. STANIERWill the right hon. Gentleman tell us if any experiments of a similar character are being carried out at any other place?
§ Mr. RUSSELLAt the laboratory at Merrion Street experiments are being carried out, but that is an isolated institution, and I hope no one thinks we would use the Agricultural College at Glasnevin to carry out any such experiments.
§ Mr. LYNCHMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman if during the course of this outbreak any conclusion has been come to with regard to the time of incubation of the disease?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe hon. Member must give notice of that question.
§ 43. Mr. FETHERSTONHAUGHasked the Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture (Ireland) when he proposes to remove the restriction on movement of cattle in North Fermanagh; has any case of foot-and-mouth disease been traced to any, and what, place in that district; has he traced all the cattle, three of which were supposed to have had foot-and-mouth disease, to the different farms from which they were bought by Mr. Cassidy, and has any trace of disease been found on any of them; is it certain that the lesions on the heads discovered at Glasgow were those of foot-and-mouth disease; was there a difference of opinion between experts on this point; and what was supposed to be the age of the lesions?
§ Mr. RUSSELLIt is hoped that, if nothing unexpected occurs in the meantime,, it may be found possible to remove 354 the restrictions within the next fortnight. The various lots forming the consignment to which the three cattle belonged whose heads were seized in Glasgow were traced to the farms from which they came. No foot-and-mouth disease has been discovered on any of these places. The appearances found on the three heads that went to Glasgow were held to be strongly suspicious of foot-and-mouth disease, and precautionary measures were taken accordingly. Meanwhile, an inquiry into the point by expert officers from both the British and the Irish Departments is proceeding.
§ Mr. MOOREMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman if he can say when the restrictive Order will be withdrawn in the adjoining district of South Donegal?
§ Mr. RUSSELLCertainly not before that date. The cattle were traced to the Ballyshannon district in Donegal, and there were other cattle traced to Ennis-killen, but I hope within a fortnight, if nothing happens, it will be possible to remove all these restrictions.
§ Mr. KILBRIDEMay I ask whether in one of the cases of the three heads that were found in Glasgow it has not been held by some of the authorities who examined them that the lesions were the result of a bad tooth?
§ Mr. RUSSELLNo, the bad tooth was in the Newry cargo, which went to Birkenhead.
§ Mr. FLAVINSeeing that nothing expected or unexpected has happened in Munster and Connaught, may I ask how soon it is the right hon. Gentleman expects to remove the quarantine of fourteen days?
§ Mr. RUSSELLThe quarantine was not imposed by the Irish Department, as the hon. Gentleman knows, and, as I have stated, my right hon. Friend and I are consulting on the matter, and we hope to make a statement to-morrow.
§ 44. Mr. PATRICK WHITEasked whether, in any of the alleged or confirmed cases of foot-and-mouth disease which occurred in Ireland this year the feet of the animals were affected; and, if so, to what extent and in how many cases?
§ Mr. RUSSELLFoot-and-mouth disease lesions were found in the feet of a number 355 of the animals slaughtered in connection with different outbreaks. To give the actual number so affected would necessitate an examination of all the reports dealing with the post-mortem examinations of the animals slaughtered since the end of June last. Such an examination would occupy a considerable time.
§ Mr. FIELDMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he will publish these reports which have been issued in respect of this particular matter?
§ Mr. RUSSELLI must ask for notice of that question.
§ 52. Mr. PATRICK WHITEasked the Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture (Ireland) whether the two lots of cattle from county Meath which were detained on suspicion, one in Dublin and the other in Dundee, have yet been removed to their farms of destination; if they have shown any symptoms of disease; and whether the officers of his Department adhere to their original diagnosis that the animals were at no time suffering from infectious foot-and-mouth disease?
§ Mr. RUSSELLThe lot of 147 cattle detained at South Wall, Dublin, were disposed of as follows: 120 were shipped to Birkenhead for slaughter there, one was injured and was slaughtered in Dublin. and twenty-six cows were shipped to Manchester as stores. For information as to the ultimate places of destination and as to the present condition of health of these twenty-six cows and of the cattle detained at Dundee, I beg to refer the hon. Member to my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Agriculture and Fisheries. As regards the last part of the question, I made a full statement to the House on this point on 5th December, and nothing has since come to the knowledge of the Department to cause them to alter the view then held.
§ Mr. PATRICK WHITEAm to understand, from the reply of the right hon. Gentleman, that under the Order which is in course of issue from his Department, fat and store cattle may be sent from county Meath to all the ports that are now open in Great Britain for the reception of Irish cattle?
§ Mr. RUSSELLYes; under an Order which comes into force to-day, fat and store cattle are permitted to be exported from county Meath.
§ Mr. FIELDI beg to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture a question, of which I have given him private notice: Whether he can state what arrangement ho proposes to make respecting the detention of livestock in ports from Ireland; whether it is intended to be of a permanent character, and, if so, what measures are being taken to provide accommodation so that the trade may be carried on with the minimum of delay and inconvenience?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANAs soon as the fear of any recrudescence of foot-and-mouth disease in Ireland has disappeared, it is proposed to issue an Order providing for the inspection of all Irish stock by veterinary officers of the Board at the landing places in Great Britain. For this purpose, and in order that the animals may be rested, fed, and watered, before proceeding to their destinations, they wilt have to spend twelve hours at these landing places. This Order will be of a permanent character, and the Regulations will, of course, apply uniformly to all the? ports concerned. When these arrangements have been tested by experience, I shall be prepared to consider whether the-time necessary for the purposes mentioned above can be reduced, but in any case the time must be the same in all the ports. The Board have been in communication with the authorities at all the principal ports where Irish stock is landed, and in those cases where satisfactory accommodation does not already exist, arrangements for meeting the Board's requirements are being pressed forward with all possible dispatch.
§ Mr. T. M. HEALYWill this Order be put into force without Parliament having any opportunity of discussing or considering the matter?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANThe usual opportunities will, I have no doubt, be taken inside the House as well as outside.
§ Mr. T. M. HEALYMay I point out that that is not an answer to my question. I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman will enforce this Order until he has given Parliament an opportunity of discussing the matter?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANParliament had an opportunity of discussing it only two nights ago—[HON. MEMBERS: "For half-an-hour."]—and I have made statements on the subject over and over again in the House.
Captain CRAIGWhere the destination of the cattle is only about half-an-hour or an hour's journey further than the new compounds, it is proposed to erect, will it be necessary to detain the cattle for twelve hours for resting and watering?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANThe detention will be primarily for the purposes of inspection. We cannot dispense with that, even if the animals are going for only half-an-hour's journey afterwards.
§ Mr. MOOREHas the right hon. Gentleman received any resolution from the Nationalist party against this entire alteration of the cattle trade of Ireland?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANI have received a number of resolutions from many parts of Ireland with regard to this matter, but most of them are based upon an entire misapprehension of the Order.
§ Mr. MOOREHas the right hon. Gentleman received any resolution from Nationalist Members of this House protesting against this interference with the trade of the country?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANOh, yes; Nationalist Members as well as Unionist Members from Ulster have been in constant communication with me on this subject.
§ Mr. MOOREOf course we have objected, but have you received any resolution from the Nationalist party in this House protesting against this change—Yes or No?
§ Captain MURRAYCan the right hon. Gentleman say whether any arrangements are being made at Aberdeen for the importation of Irish cattle?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANI should require to have notice of that question. At present I do not know of any. At most of the Scottish ports arrangements are already proceeding, and in many of them are complete.
§ Sir JOHN LONSDALEHas the right hon. Gentleman insisted upon the authorities in Ireland retaining the cattle there for twelve hours before embarkation?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANCertainly not.
Captain CRAIGIf the Vice-President of the Irish Department of Agriculture threatened to resign, would that stop the matter at once?
§ Mr. JOHN O'CONNORPending the issue of the Order, will the right hon. 358 Gentleman permit cattle to be moved by rail from the port of debarkation to their place of destination?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANI do not think that the hon. and learned Gentleman clearly understands that this Order is intended to come into force when the trade has resumed its normal course, and then animals will be free, immediately they have spent their short time of resting at the landing places, to go to their destination by road, rail, or otherwise, as is most convenient to the consignor.
§ Mr. KILBRIDEPending the restoration of the trade to its normal conditions will the right hon. Gentleman continue to insist on the four days' quarantine on this side for Irish store cattle?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANIt does not apply to cattle slaughtered at the landing places. I hope the four days' quarantine for store cattle will soon be quite unnecessary.
§ Mr. KILBRIDEWill the right hon. Gentleman insist upon the four days' quarantine being continued for fat cattle landing at Holyhead on their way to London?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANThere is no four days' quarantine for fat cattle. Fat cattle have to be slaughtered at the landing places.
§ Mr. KILBRIDEWill you allow them to go through without being slaughtered at the landing places?
§ Mr. MOOREMay I ask the Prime Minister if it is not evident that this question ought to be discussed in a free House? It is too important for mere question and answer.