§ Sir T. ESMONDEThere are one or two small matters to which I would like to draw the attention of the Chief Secretary for Ireland. The first is the question of a Public Trustee in Ireland. The Public Trustee in England has been a very great success. Of course, no one imagines for a moment that the business of a Public Trustee in Ireland would ever attain anything like the proportions which the business of the Public Trustee in England has attained. A Public Trustee is very much wanted in Ireland. He would do a small business, but it would be a very important business, because he would deal with small estates belonging to poor people who at present feel very much the want of an efficient public custodian of their interests. When the Bill to establish a Public Trustee in England was introduced some years ago, I and a number of my Friends desired that it should be extended to Ireland, but we were told if we persevered in our endeavour to get a Public Trustee for Ireland we should wreck the Bill and damnify the position of the English people who wished this office to be instituted. On those grounds, instead of opposing the Bill, we supported it; and we understood at the time that, in view of the fact that we did support it, our case would be considered at the first available opportunity. Our case has never been considered since in a legislative fashion. We have, of course, a Public Trustee in Ireland; but his operations are restricted to the operations of the Land Purchase Acts. He is not able to deal with the general question of small trusteeships. Everybody admits a Public Trustee is a desirable institution. We find in Ireland the greatest possible difficulty in getting a trustee at all for small societies. Constantly there were cases where people suffered great loss through the dishonesty of trustees, or incompetent trustees, or from trustees who were not able properly to discharge the business of the people to whom they were responsible. May I make a suggestion to the right hon. Gentleman? We have a Public Trustee in Ireland for land purchase purposes, and I do not sup- 1500 pose it would be a very difficult matter to extend the scope of the operations of this gentleman and allow him to take up the work of ordinary trusteeship. In the next Session there will be an excellent opportunity, because the right hon. Gentleman proposes to deal with Irish land purchase, and I imagine it would be quite possible in connection with these land purchase proposals to enlarge the scope of the Irish Public Trustee in the way I have suggested. Representations have been made to the right hon. Gentleman from many quarters, and, for some time past, like many of my colleagues, I have been deluged with correspondence on the subject, urging us to impress upon the Government the importance of the matter. I do not suppose that there would be any serious opposition to the establishment of a Public Trustee in Ireland. The right hon. Gentleman appears to doubt that, but so far as I know the only serious opposition to this appointment comes from certain professional gentlemen who imagine that their interests would be injuriously affected thereby. I do not know that there will be that affect, but I am aware that many professional gentlemen consider they will not be injured. I do suggest that the fact that certain individuals are personally interested in opposing a proposal of this kind is no reason why the great majority of the people of the country, who desire it and think their interests would be served by such an appointment, should be denied the justice which they legitimately ask for. I ask the right hon. Gentleman to consider whether it would be possible in connection with the scheme of land purchase legislation next Session to extend the operations of the Public Trustee in Ireland?
Another matter I wish to raise concerns facilities for the construction of technical schools in Ireland. I have received letters, and so have other Irish Members, containing very urgent representations to press upon the Government the necessity for making provision in the next Budget for a Grant for the erection of technical schools in Ireland. I think it is only my duty, having received these, to lay the matter before the Government. A good deal has been done for technical education in Ireland. It is an old question. We fought it for many years, and I was one of those who took a great interest in the matter when I was a very young Member, and I believe before the Chief Secretary was a Member of the House. We 1501 succeeded in getting something done, but at the present moment this question is rather at a standstill. What we want now is sonic kind of impetus to encourage the work and widen the scope of the operations. We all know that the local authorities can raise money for the purpose of building technical schools. Irish local authorities can raise money for almost everything, and I think the right hon. Gentleman will admit that they have very freely availed themselves of the opportunity of increasing local taxation to further desirable objects. Irish taxpayers, like all other taxpayers, do not care to see their rates and taxes mounting up year after year, as they are doing and probably will continue to do. What I suggest is that the right hon. Gentleman might offer the local authorities an inducement to increase the rates for the purpose of building technical schools. He might say, "If you will tax yourselves to put up these buildings, we will come to your assistance to the extent of 50 per cent. If you put your hands in your pockets for half the money to build schools, we will see that you get the other half." That would give a fillip to building such schools.
I wish to say a word about the case of the Irish national school teachers, a most deserving class. Doctors and teachers are the most deserving of all public servants in Ireland. Their case excites universal sympathy. I have observed of late years a great deal of dissatisfaction in the yanks of national school teachers, which is not good for the teachers or for the education of the country. There is one thing they reel intensely, that is the system which has been in operation in comparatively recent years of compulsorily retiring teachers before their proper period for pension has arrived, as a result of the investigations of travelling inspectors. It is a monstrous thing that teachers who have given long service in a most difficult and thankless profession should be compulsorily retired before the ordinary period for their retirement arrives. They lose a very substantial part of the pension to which they are legitimately entitled. The Chief Secretary will recognise that this is a most important matter for these men, in view of their long service, the age at which they retire, the very small payment they get, and the comparatively small pension they receive on retirement. I make this suggestion. We are having an inquiry into this question of the retirement of teachers and 1502 other matters in connection with Irish national education. We might very fairly ask that none of these teachers should be compulsorily retired on the reports of their inspectors until this Commission has issued its report. After all, that is a very fair request to make. It is extremely hard on these men that they should be retired before their time, and inasmuch as the whole question is being investigated, the least we can ask is that they should not be retired before the Commission has produced its report.
Very many of us think the proceedings of the Commission ought to be public. I am told it has decided that its proceedings should be conducted in camera, a decision which has given very great dissatisfaction, and it appears to me as an outsider, and one who is absolutely unconcerned in the matter except from a Sympathetic point of view, that the object of the Commission will be largely defeated if its proceedings are not conducted in public. It is dealing with matters of very great importance, matters. which not only affect the teachers, but also the parents -and the public of the country generally. The findings of the Commission, whatever they may be, will have very much greater weight if the proceedings have been conducted in public I do not know if I am making an undue demand, but in their own interest, and certainly in the interests of public education in Ireland, they would be wise to conduct their proceedings in public, because after all it is no use saying this Commission will be conducted in private because its proceedings are bound to come out in the end, but the getting of them out will cause a good deal of trouble and take a great deal of time, and people will lose their tempers over it, and it is very much better if we start by making the thing absolutely public so that everyone would know what was going on and no one would have any reason to complain.
Then there is another matter. If the Commission is conducted in camera I chi. not know what evidence we shall get for the teachers. It has been suggested to me that they should get a bill of indemnity. If they are to give evidence which is to be of any value they ought to be assured beforehand that whatever they say will not militate against them in their relations With their superiors after this Corn-mission is over. If they have not been given this bill of indemnity I imagine it is simply 1503 an oversight. The matter seems to me to be so perfectly obvious that I imagine it is quite sufficient for me to call attention to the point that it may be conceded. In connection with this inquiry we are all reminded of the historic case of Mr. Mansfield, which brought this inquiry about. I have always been anxious to see Mr. Mansfield reinstated, at all events pending the decision of this Committee. I know this request has often been made and refused, but at the same time I should like to make it again. If Mr. Mansfield could be reinstated pending the publication of the Report of the Committee it would have a most excellent effect all round. It would snake for good feeling and satisfaction among the teachers, and it would help the public mind towards a better perception of whatever the result of the Commission may be. These three points have been urged upon me by Constituents of mine, many of them old friends, and therefore I take the liberty of submitting them to the notice of the Chief Secretary.
5.0 P.M.
I wish to refer to the question of Irish tobacco. I am sure I shall have the sympathy of the Chief Secretary on that question. Tobacco is a most important element in politics. In my part of the world we wish to grow tobacco. We find that most excellent institution the Department of Agriculture is not very solicitous to assist us in that matter. Tobacco has been grown in Ireland for a considerable time past, and tobacco is sold in Ireland with a large subsidy from the State under the name of Irish tobacco. As a matter of fact, we are at the present moment subsiding American tobacco under the plea of subsiding Irish tobacco on account of a most extraordinary regulation of the Department of Agriculture, which says:—
Tobacco grown in Ireland may be mixed with 75 per cent. of tobacco grown in America. and then it shall be called Irish tobacco.That is an arrangement which could only be made in a country presided over by such a witty gentleman as the present Chief Secretary. In my part of the world we want to obtain the grant of £25 per acre, or whatever it may be—I am not sure of the exact figure. We want to participate in the Grant for growing tobacco given by the Development Commissioners. We propose to grow tobacco which shall be sold as all Irish, and not containing 75 per cent. of American tobacco. We propose 1504 to grow tobacco which could be smoked. The tobacco grown hitherto is absolutely unsmokable unless mixed with 75 per cent. of American tobacco. We have put a proposition before the Department of Agriculture. It has been before the Department for many months, and in the meantime the period for sowing tobacco seed is approaching, and it will soon be past. We want to get the acreage Grant for this year. My experience of the Department is that it assumes more red-tape than two or three other Departments put together. We propose to follow out the lines contained in the agreement between the Department and Sir Nugent Everard with one or two modifications. I wish, in the first place, to refer to Clause 4 of the agreement. We propose to change Clause 4. It states:—Tobacco planted under this agreement shall be such as will produce a heavy pipe tobacco.A heavy pipe tobacco is unsmokable, and what we propose is to substitute for the word "heavy" the word "smokable." We propose to do away with the arrangement of mixing 75 per cent. of American tobacco with the Irish tobacco. Clause 21 reads:—About 25 per cent. of the tobacco sold as Irish shall be grown in Ireland.We propose, instead of 25 per cent. to say 99 per cent. If we are to subsidise tobacco to the exent of £25 an acre we should not give the money to the Americans, who have enough money. We want to keep the money at home. The final arrangement is this: Clause 12 requires that a certain machine, called a Proctor machine, capable of dealing with 150,000 lbs. of tobacco in thirty working days, shall be put up. We have no objection to providing the 150,000 lbs. of tobacco What we object to is this Proctor machine. It is a machine used for the purpose of blending American tobacco with Irish tobacco; but, as we propose to grow all Irish tobacco, we do not see the necessity for employing a Proctor machine, and therefore we propose to leave that out. I would ask the Chief Secretary to use his influence with the Department of Agriculture to enable the tobacco growers of Wexford to obtain the advantages of the Grants which are now given to Sir Nugent Everard. The result of using too much American seed has been to produce a tobacco that is much too strong for smoking purposes. The Belgians are great tobacco growers. We have smoked 1505 Belgian tobacco. Some of us have liked it, and some of us have not. We propose to get our seeds from Belgium, and to cure our tobacco according to the Belgian idea. And, inasmuch as we are all experimenting and the object is to discover the best tobacco to grow in these Islands, it is obviously to the public advantage to encourage as many different experiments as possible. I trust that the right hon. Gentleman will give a sympathetic ear to my request, so that we shall be able to carry out our proposals.
§ Mr. O'MALLEYI had intended to make a rather long reference to the state of things in regard to purchase in Connemara but for the reply made to a question of mine by the Chief Secretary yesterday, to the effect that negotiations were proceeding for the purchase of three or four estates, including the Berridge estate, which is one of the largest estates in the whole of Ireland. The right hon. Gentleman said that he was most anxious at the earliest possible moment to buy estates in Connemara, and I am sure that his reply will be received with the greatest possible pleasure. I hope the right hon. Gentleman will expedite, as far as possible, the procedure of the Congested Districts Board in the matter of land purchase. I am quite aware of the difficulties which that body has to encounter, and that the problem with which they have to deal is well nigh insoluble; still, I am convinced that they could proceed very much more rapidly than they have done. It is now four years since the Land Act associated with the name of the Chief Secretary was passed, yet in the district of Connemara only three or four estates have been purchased. I know that negotiations are absolutely essential in that part of the country, but I do submit to the right hon. Gentleman that those negotiations could be much more rapidly carried on than they have been. I pointed out last year that the Land Act of 1903 failed to do anything for the West of Ireland; and the Land Act of 1909 was passed especially to deal with the Western problem. The people of Connemara have been patient for years, and it will be gratifying to them to know that the Board will at length proceed more rapidly than in the past few years in the purchase of estates there. Some years ago negotiations for the purchase of an estate were begun, and week after week, month after month, and year after year the people have been waiting to know what has been done. "Hope deferred maketh 1506 the heart sick," and the people of Connemara are not satisfied with the progress that has been made. I hope, after the Chief Secretary's reply yesterday, that we shall now see rapid progress made with the purchase of estates.
§ Mr. O'SHAUGHNESSYI rise for the purpose of calling the attention of the Chief Secretary to the necessity of the Estates Commissioners dealing with several evicted tenants in my Constituency who have not been fully reinstated. During this and last year I have asked several questions as to why they were not reinstated, yet nothing has been done. There is one case of a man who has been evicted for twenty years and who for a considerable period lived in an evicted tenant's timber hut built for him in the locality. The Estates Commissioners recognised the justice of his claim and still they have not done anything to reinstate him. There is also another case of people who were large farmers at one time and who were evicted for one year's rent. That is a case also which the Estates Commissioners recognised as genuine, but still they have not made any provision for that family. There is then the case of the evicted tenants on the Aughanish estate, who have, been out of their holdings for many years, and who are not yet reinstated. In that case I blame the Estates Commission, because the landlord agreed to sell to the seven or eight tenants on the estate. The evicted tenants agreed to the price fixed by the inspector of the Estates Commissioners, and the only question remaining was as to the provision of embankments. The estate is on the river Shannon, and a large embankment has to be kept up. The landlord agreed to pay £200 for the upkeep of the embankments, the tenants to make up a balance of £300. The evicted tenants, the landlord, and I myself met in a town in my Constituency, and we agreed to accept the price offered by the Commissioners' inspector, and also to pay the £300, so that the tenants might be reinstated at once. I put that agreement before the Estates Commissioners, but I am sorry to say they refused to carry it out. They persisted in their refusal, and in order that the evicted tenants might be kept no longer waiting the tenants agreed to get the money in a bank so that the sale might be carried through. We have put that before the Commissioners, and I hope this time they will sanction that agreement. I may add that owing to the delay bf the Estates Commissioners one of those 1507 evicted tenants has since died. There are several other cases, and I trust the Chief Secretary will impress on the Estates Commissioners the necessity for dealing with those cases which are recognised as genuine, because if they delay much longer those evicted tenants will be dead. There is one other matter to which I wish to call the attention of the Chief Secretary, and that is the Mahony estate at Mount Collins. This matter has been under the notice of the Estates Commissioners for a considerable time, and I receive letters every day from representative men complaining of the delay. The latest information I have is that unless the Commissioners act at once the tenants will lose the turbary of that estate this year. Furthermore, the tenants are not able to work their little holdings because they do not know in what way the Commissioners are going to deal with them. I hope the right hon. Gentleman will impress upon the Estates Commissioners the necessity of dealing with these various matters.
§ Mr. FIELDI wish to ask the Chief Secretary one or two questions. The first is whether he can give me any information with regard to the Commission on National Education. According to a communication that I have received, some of the most important witnesses are unwilling to give evidence before the Commission. The proceedings of the Commission are not published, and I should like to know why the usual course in that respect has been departed from in this case. My next question is in reference to the Public Trustee Act. I have had several communications from members of chambers of commerce asking why the Act has not been extended to Ireland, and why the same opportunity is not given to the people of Ireland in this matter as to the people of Great Britain. "A fellow feeling makes one wondrous kind." I happen to be a trustee and I want to be relieved of the responsibility as soon as possible. While we are under a Union Government. I cannot understand why in such a matter we have not equal laws. I wish to refer to a question on which the right hon. Gentleman is not competent to answer. We are not satisfied with the way things are going with regard to the twelve hours' detention. It is not the right hon. Gentleman's Department, so I do not expect an official reply. But I do take this, the latest oppor- 1508 tunity, of protesting against the twelve hours' detention of Irish live stock—
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe hon. Gentleman is not now entitled to go into that question. Discussion is prevented by a blocking Motion.
§ The CHIEF SECRETARY for IRELAND (Mr. Birrell)I shall endeavour to deal shortly with the points that have been raised. In respect to the Public Trustee, I myself am quite in favour of the extension of the Public Trustee Act to Ireland. We have a very competent trustee in Ireland, who has a good deal to do with the beneficent provisions of the recent Land Purchase Act, which enables landlords who have land purchase moneys to invest, to invest them in excellent securities, which get them rather a higher rate of interest than otherwise they would obtain. When my small estate comes to be administered it will be found that I have expressed my confidence in the Public Trustee in a most satisfactory way—although he will not have much to do. The Public Trustee Act cannot be extended to Ireland without legislation. The hon. Baronet insisted that I should not find very much opposition, but I shall find some amongst those sons of Zeruiah who had sufficient strength to prevent Oliver Cromwell forming a Chancery Court during the Protectorate. I therefore cannot altogether agree with the hon. Baronet that the request is one that would not give rise to a good deal of opposition.
Why, it was asked, cannot we have this matter on the same lines in Ireland as in England? We have a tender feeling for Ireland, and we do not wish to impose laws upon her without general assent. Consequently the difficulty arises in Ireland itself. If Ireland had demanded a Public Trustee Act they would have got it. It does not do to be frightened by mere threats of opposition, and I am inclined to agree that an Act of this sort will really meet with the general wishes of the more intelligent portion of the Irish community. Then with respect to the second question, no one is more in favour than I am of these admirable institutions, because they afford an opportunity, much needed in Ireland, to Catholics and Protestants to work together for the general educational advancement. I know nothing more generally beneficial of that character than these technical schools and the kind of work that is carried on by means of these Committees. 1509 But, of course, as the hon. Baronet says it is a question of cash. The Department of Agriculture and technical instruction have no fund from which they might be expected to make Grants for this purpose, and the only provision at present is if the local authorities can secure funds raised on the security of the rates. The hon. Baronet says, truly enough, people do not like rates, but there is no objection to taxes: that is having a share in the taxes of others as well as your own, of course. Then there is the pound to pound theory. Well, I have argued that theory with the present Chancellor of the Exchequer as hard as any man could, and I am not sure I have not got to the end, but I am quite willing to try again; but you must recognise when you say that the rates will not do it, because the locality has already sufficient burdens to bear for other works, that if they do not wish to put their hands in their pockets in future they are quite willing to come to the general taxpayer for whom they have no consideration, and dip into his pocket. I quite recognise this is one of the most important things you can do now, and I think the hon. Baronet is in favour of the pound to pound proposal; so am I, if I could get the pound from the locality and the pound from the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
The next point the hon. Baronet raised is about the national school teachers. He raised the question about the compulsory retirement of teachers. It is as plain as a pikestaff that there must be some power to remove incompetent teachers. But the question arises who are the incompetent teachers? Is that to be determined by the inspectors? Then the interesting point arises about the competency of the inspector to inspect the teacher and so you come on from one point to another until you might come to the Chief Secretary and have a question raised as to his competency. It is no use saying it is hard on teachers to lose their increments, and increased pension. If they are incompetent they must go. Who is to say whether the inspectors are competent? So far our only means of discovering that is through the Board of National Education, who control their inspectors. Of course, I quite agree with the hon. Baronet it is a cruel thing to remove a teacher who is not incompetent, but it is absolutely necessary to remove a teacher who is incompetent, and therefore the whole question is who is to say whether the inspectors themselves are competent to discharge this onerous and invidious task. That is a 1510 matter the Board of Education are bound to look into constantly, and to see that their inspectors do not exercise the power vested in them in an arbitrary or cruel manner.
A Commission has been appointed—and a nice job it was to appoint it—to consider amongst other questions, this question of the inspection of teachers. I hope they will discharge their duties to the satisfaction of all parties. It is a vexed and a difficult question. This Commission has been called into question because it has decided to begin, at all events, by sitting in private. A full verbatim note of everything that passes will be taken, and everything that passes will be printed and published in due course; but as to whether they were wise to sit in private to begin with, that is a matter over which I have no control. It is a Vice-regal Commission, not set up by Act of Parliament, and represents a very considerable number of persons of different interests and points of view, and they have decided to sit in private. If I were a member of that Commission I could only come to a decision after listening to the various views put forward by the members of that Commission. For myself, perhaps I would prefer to have publicity, but, when you arc dealing with teachers and with persons interested, I cannot say that, if I had the advantage of hearing all these matters, I should not prefer to have a quiet, domestic form of inquiry, rather than the more excitable public form. That is not the way to carry on an educational inquiry. I do not express any opinion, but meantime they have come to the decision to which reference has already been made.
Another important question which has been raised is in regard to indemnity to the employés of the National Board. The same question arises in the case of railway servants who feel if they give a particular kind of evidence they may be registering a black mark against themselves. I should be sorry to think that the Board of National Education, over whom I have no control, and who are trustees of one of the most sacred purposes in Ireland, would allow themselves to be animated by petty spite or hostility towards individuals. I cannot, however, give an indemnity, because that can only be done by an Act of Parliament, and we should have to set up a Royal Commission and hear witnesses and take evidence. The Commission are making a full inquiry 1511 into the subject, and they are inviting people to come forward and give their evidence truthfully and fearlessly, and I do not think any evil results will follow. Parliament will see that nothing of that kind happens. In justice to the Board of National Education I do not think there is any reason to believe that anything of the kind which has been mentioned by the hon. Member opposite is likely to happen. On these matters people sometimes get excited and use rather stronger language than the necessities of the case merit. If these people appear before the Commission and make a representation of their views, I feel certain that they will not in any way suffer. With regard to the question of tobacco growing, which has been raised by the hon. Member for North Wexford (Sir T. Esmonde), it is true that a scheme has been placed before the Vice-President suggesting that he should encourage the growing of tobacco from Belgian seed in-stead of American seed, and he expresses the hope that Wexford tobacco will be all Irish tobacco. All I can say is that up to the present the suggestion which the hon. Baronet has made has not been considered to be an experiment for which a Grant could properly be allowed. This is really more a matter for the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Excise regulations than a question for the Department of Agriculture.
§ Sir T. ESMONDEThe Excise are satisfied with it.
§ Mr. BIRRELLIf they are satisfied and agree with what the hon. Baronet says, that is all right, but on my own authority I will promise to see that the subject matter is again brought before the Department of Agriculture. I think those are all the points raised by the hon. Baronet, and I am very much indebted to him for the temperate manner in which he has placed before me matters of considerable importance. I think the hon. Member for Connemara (Mr. O'Malley) would have made a big speech if I had not spiked his guns by an answer which I gave yesterday. That answer was not given to avoid a discussion, because what I stated only represents what is the settled practice of the Congested Districts Board. I am glad to find he does acknowledge—he could not but do so—that the Congested Districts Board has done an immense deal for the district he represents, 1512 but he must really bear in mind Connemara is not the whole of Ireland. The Congested Districts Board has to exercise authority over one-third of Ireland, and there are other parts of Ireland where the interests are at least as great and in some respects greater. The difficulty about Connemara is that though it is most desirable the land should pass into the hands of the tenants, it does not altogeher repay for the attention and the expenditure of the money necessary to make the holdings economic, which is the real object of the Congested Districts Board. It must be borne in mind that the Board does not exist as a, mere agent for the transfer of land from landlord to tenant; it exists and gets its Grant of public money in order that the persons who have the holdings should be in possession of economic holdings on which they can live and thrive. There is a difficulty in that way. We have, as the lawyers say, to marshal our assets and to spend the money over Ireland as a whole. We cannot concentrate on Connemara, even although it has the advantage of being represented by the hon. Member. I assure him we are doing all we can, and it is really idle to say we can go a great deal faster. We have done an enormous quantity. The Congested Districts Board is at the present time the largest landowner in the world. We have bought between £6,000,000 and £7,000,000 worth of estates, and I am sometimes alarmed at the rapidity with which we have proceeded. I, therefore, beseech hon. Members to be reasonable in this matter, and to remember we can only wait our time and that our income is limited. The obligation imposed upon us is not merely to turn tenants into smallholders, but to spend our money and exercise all the care we can in improving the holdings, and creating not a beggarly race of half-starved peasant proprietors, but a strong, independent peasantry. The hon. Member said a good deal about evicted tenants not being dealt with by the Estates Commissioners as he thinks they ought to be, and he mentioned an estate where there is great difficulty in getting the money absolutely necessary to prevent it being flooded. I really have no authority over these Commissioners, but they have one of the most difficult tasks ever imposed upon any body of men, and I think they do it exceedingly well. I will, however, see their attention is called to the various cases the hon. Member has mentioned, and I can assure him they will be rejoiced to know 1513 they have got rid of the evicted tenants for ever, because a more difficult and distasteful task has never been imposed upon any body of men. They are very sorry for the troubles of these evicted tenants, but many of them have long since lost the capacity for farming their ancestors possessed, and they are not always proper persons to introduce into a locality. The task of putting people on the land requires great care and discrimination and courage, and I think, on the whole, the Commissioners have discharged their duty particularly well, although it is not surprising that some holes should be found in their armour, and that some points should have been made against them. With regard to another point, there has been some feeling about the delay that has taken place in putting into force the compulsory powers of the Act against Lord Clanricarde. We have all heard of "the law's delay" and we arc being fought with all the skill in delay of a Noble Lord who has wealth and considerable astuteness. I am able to state that we are pushing the matter on in the Courts, and I hone before this Law Term is over we may be able to make a great step towards the acquisition of the estate. It is only a matter of a few days before that will be settled one way or the other.