§ During the continuance of the existing interest of the holder of any ecclesiastical office in the Church in Wales in any property transferred under this Act to the representative body, any power of sale, leasing, mortgaging, exchanging, or otherwise disposing of or dealing with that property exerciseable by the holder of that office at the passing of this Act shall continue exerciseable by him, but no such power shall be exercised by him without the consent of the representative body, and such consent as aforesaid shall be substituted for any
2140§ consents or approval which would have been required if this Act had not been passed:
§ Provided that where under the Acts in pursuance of which property is disposed of or dealt with the whole or any part of the proceeds of the consideration received for the sale, leasing, mortgage, exchange, disposal of, or dealing with the property is payable to the Ecclesiastical Commissioners or Queen Anne's Bounty or the Board of Agriculture and Fisheries, or any other authority, it shall be paid to the representative body, and shall, subject to the existing interest of the incumbent, become the property of that body.
§ Government Amendment made: Leave out the words "transferred under this Act to the representative body."—[Mr. MeKenna.]
§ Government Amendment proposed: To leave out the words "without the consent of the representative body," and insert instead thereof the words—
- "(a) in the case of property transferred or to be transferred to the representative body, without the consent of that body; and
- (b)in the case of property transferred or to be transferred to a county council, without the consent of the Welsh Commissioners so long as they continue to exist, and thereafter of the county council, or on appeal of the Board of Agriculture and Fisheries."—[Mr. McKenna.]
§ Question put, "That the Amendment be made."
§ The House divided: Ayes, 277; Noes, 164.
2143| Division No. 573.] | AYES. | [10.57 p.m. |
| Abraham, William (Dublin, Harbour) | Arnold, Sydney | Bentham, George Jackson |
| Abraham, Rt. Hon. William (Rhondda) | Baker, H. T. (Accrington) | Bethell, Sir J. H. |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.) | Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine |
| Adamson, William | Balfour, Sir Robert (Lanark) | Boland, John Plus |
| Addison, Dr. Christopher | Baring, Sir Godfrey (Barnstaple) | Booth, Frederick Handel |
| Agar-Robartes, Hon. T. C. R. | Barnes, G. N. | Brace, William |
| Agnew, Sir George William | Barton, W. | Brady, p. J. |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Beale, Sir William Phipson | Brocklehurst, W. B. |
| Alden, Percy | Beck, Arthur Cecil | Brunner, J. F. L. |
| Allen, A. A. (Dumbartonshire) | Benn, W. W. (T. H'mts, St. George) | Bryce, J. Annan |
| Buckmaster, Stanley O. | Higham, John Sharp | Parker, James (Halifax) |
| Burke, E. Haviland- | Hinds, John | Parry, Thomas H. |
| Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Hobhouse, Rt. Hon. Charles E. H. | Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek) |
| Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas | Hodge, John | Pearce, William (Limehouse) |
| Buxton, Rt. Hon. S. C. (Poplar) | Hogge, James Myles | Pease, Rt. Hon. Joseph A. (Rotherham) |
| Byles, Sir William Pollard | Holmes, Daniel Turner | Phillips, John (Longford, S.) |
| Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Holt, Richard Durning | Pointer, Joseph |
| Cawley, Harold T. (Lancs., Heywood) | Hope, John Deans (Haddington) | Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H. |
| Chapple, Dr. William Allen | Horne, Charles Silvester (Ipswich) | Price, Sir Robert J. (Norfolk, E.) |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Hudson, Walter | Priestley, Sir W. E. B. (Bradford, E.) |
| Clough, William | Hughes, S. L. | Primrose, Hon. Nell James |
| Clynes, John R. | Illingworth, Percy H. | Pringle, William M. R. |
| Collins, Godfrey p. (Greenock) | Isaacs, Rt. Hon. Sir Rufus | Radford, G. H. |
| Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | John, Edward Thomas | Raffan, Peter Wilson |
| Compton-Rickett, Rt. Hon. Sir J. | Jones, Rt.Hon.Sir D.Brynmor (Swansea) | Raphael, Sir Herbert Henry |
| Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Jones, Edgar R. (Merthyr Tydvil) | Rea, Rt. Hon. Russell (South Shields) |
| Cotton, William Francis | Jones, H. Haydn (Merioneth) | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough) |
| Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth) | Jones, J. Towyn (Carmarthen, East) | Reddy, Michael |
| Crawshay-Williams, Eliot | Jones, Leif Stratten (Notts, Rushcliffe) | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) |
| Crumley, Patrick | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire) | Redmond, William (Clare, E.) |
| Dalziel, Rt. Hon. Sir J. H. (Kirkcaldy) | Jones, William S. Glyn- (Stepney) | Redmond, William Archer (Tyrone, E.) |
| Davies, David (Montgomery Co.) | Joyce, Michael | Rendall, Athelstan |
| Davies, E. William (Eifion) | Keating, Matthew | Richards, Thomas |
| Davies, Timothy (Lincs., Louth) | Kellaway, Frederick George | Richardson, Albion (Peckham) |
| Davies, Sir W. Howell (Bristol, S.) | Kennedy, Vincent Paul | Richardson, Thomas (Whitehaven) |
| Dawes, J. A. | Kilbride, Denis | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) |
| De Forest, Baron | King, Joseph | Roberts, George H. (Norwich) |
| Delany, William | Lambert, Rt. Hon. G. (Devon,S.Molton) | Roberts, Sir J. H. (Denbighs) |
| Denman, Hon. R. D. | Lambert, Richard (Cricklade) | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) |
| Devlin, Joseph | Lardner, James Carrige Rushe | Robinson, Sidney |
| Dewar, Sir J. A. | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, West) | Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke) |
| Dickinson, W. H. | Leach, Charles | Roche, Augustine (Louth) |
| Dillon, John | Levy, Sir Maurice | Roe, Sir Thomas |
| Donelan. Captain A. | Lewis, John Herbert | Rose, Sir Charles Day |
| Doris, William | Low, Sir F. (Norwich) | Rowlands, James |
| Duffy, William J. | Lundon, T. | Rowntree, Arnold |
| Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) | Lyell, Charles Henry | Russell, Rt. Hon. Thomas W. |
| Duncan, J. Hastings (Yorks, Otley) | Lynch, A. A. | Samuel, Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland) |
| Edwards, Clement (Glamorgan, E.) | Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk Burghs) | Scanlan, Thomas |
| Edwards, Sir Francis (Radnor) | McGhee, Richard | Sheehy, David |
| Edwards, J. H. (Glamorgan, Mid) | Maclean, Donald | Sherwell, Arthur James |
| Elverston, Sir Harold | Macnamara, Rt. Hon. Dr. T. J. | Shortt, Edward |
| Esmonde, Dr. John (Tipperary, N.) | MacNeill, J. G. Swift (Donegal, South) | Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir John Allsebrook |
| Esmonds, Sir Thomas (Wexford, N.) | Macpherson, James Ian | Smith, Albert (Lancs., Clitheroe) |
| Essex, Sir Richard Walter | MacVeagh, Jeremiah | Smith, H. B. L. (Northampton) |
| Esslemont, George Birnle | M'Callum, Sir John M. | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.) |
| Falconer, James | McKenna, Rt. Hon, Reginald | Strauss, Edward A. (Southwark, West) |
| Farrell, James Patrick | M'Micking, Major Gilbert | Sutherland, J. E. |
| Ferens, Rt. Hon. Thomas Robinson | Marks, Sir George Croydon | Sutton, John E. |
| Firench, Peter | Marshall, Arthur Harold | Taylor, John W. (Durham) |
| Field, William | Martin, Joseph | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) |
| Fitzgibbon, John | Meagher, Michael | Taylor, Thomas (Bolton) |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | Meehan, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.) | Tennant, Harold John |
| George, Rt. Hon. D. Lloyd | Middlebrook, William | Thomas, James Henry |
| Gill, A. H. | Millar, James Duncan | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton) |
| Glanville, H. J. | Molloy, Michael | Thorne, W. (West Ham) |
| Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford | Molteno, Percy Alport | Verney, Sir Harry |
| Goldstone, Frank | Mond, Sir Alfred M. | Wadsworth, J. |
| Greenwood, Granville G. (Peterborough) | Money, L. G. Chiozza | Walsh, Stephen (Lanvs., Ince) |
| Greenwood, Hamar (Sunderland) | Mooney, John J. | Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent) |
| Greig, Colonel J. W. | Morgan, George Hay | Ward, W. (Dudley (Southampton) |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | Morrell, Philip | Warner, Sir Thomas Courtenay |
| Guest, Major Hon. C. H. C. (Pembroke) | Morison, Hector | Wason, Rt. Hon. E. (Clackmannan) |
| Gulland, John William | Morton, Alpheus Cleophas | Watt, Henry A. |
| Gwynn, Stephen Lucius (Galway) | Muldoon, John | Webb, H. |
| Hackett, J. | Munro, R. | White. J. Dundas (Glasgow, Tradeston) |
| Hall, Frederick (Normanton) | Munro-Ferguson, Rt. Hon. R. C. | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Hancock, J. G. | Needham, Christopher T, | Whitehouse, John Howard |
| Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | Nolan, Joseph | Whittaker, Rt. Hon. Sir T. P. |
| Hardie, J. Keir | Norton, Captain Cecil W. | Whyte, A. F. |
| Harmsworth, R. L. (Caithness-shire) | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Wiles, Thomas |
| Harvey, A. G. c. (Rochdale) | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) | Wilkie, Alexander |
| Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, West) | O'Doherty, Philip | Williams, J. (Glamorgan) |
| Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire) | O'Dowd, John | Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarthen) |
| Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | O'Grady, James | Wilson, Rt. Hon. J. W. (Worcs., N.) |
| Havelock-Allan, sir Henry | O'Kelly, Edward P. (Wicklow, W.) | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Hayden, John Patrick | O'Malley, William | Winfrey, Richard |
| Hayward, Evan | O'Neill, Dr. Charles (Armagh, S.) | Wood, Rt. Hon. T. McKinnon (Glas.) |
| Hazleton, Richard (Galway, N.) | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | Young, William (Perthshire, E.) |
| Healy, Maurice (Cork) | O'Shee, James John | Yoxall, Sir James Henry |
| Healy, Timothy Michael (Cork, N.E.) | O'Sullivan, Timothy | |
| Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Outhwaite, R. L. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Mr. G. Howard and Captain Guest. |
| Henry, Sir Charles | Palmer, Godfrey Mark | |
| Herbert, General Sir Ivor (Hon., S.) |
| NOES. | ||
| Agg-Gardner, James Tynte | Gardner, Ernest | Newman, John R. P. |
| Anson, Rt. Hon. Sir William R. | Gibbs, G. A. | Newton, Harry Kottingham |
| Ashley, Wilfrid W. | Gilmour, Captain John | Nicholson, William G. (Petersfield) |
| Astor, Waldorf | Goldsmith, Frank | Orde-Powlett, Hon. W. G. A. |
| Baird, John Lawrence | Gordon, Hon. John Edward (Brighton) | Ormsby-Gore, Hon. William |
| Baker, Sir Randolf L. (Dorset, N.) | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend) |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Grant, J. A. | Peel, Captain R. F. |
| Baring, Maj. Hon. Guy V. (Winchester) | Greene, W. R. | Perkins, Walter Frank |
| Barlow, Montague (Saltord, South) | Guinness, Hon. Rupert (Essex, S.E.) | Peto, Basil Edward |
| Barnston, Harry | Guinness, Hon. W.E. (Bury S.Edmunds) | Pole-Carew, Sir R. |
| Barrie, H. T. | Gwynne, R. S. (Sussex, Eastbourne) | Pollock, Ernest Murray |
| Bathurst, Charles (Wilts, Wilton) | Hall, Frederick (Dulwich) | Pretyman, Ernest George |
| Beach, Hon. Michael Hugh Hicks | Hall, Marshall (E. Toxteth) | Pryce-Jones, Col. E. |
| Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Hardy, Rt. Hon. Laurence | Quilter, Sir William Eley C. |
| Benn, Arthur Shirley (Plymouth) | Harris, Henry Percy | Randles, Sir John S. |
| Bennett-Goldney, Francis | Harrison-Broadley, H. B. | Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry Cavendish- | Helmsley, Viscount | Rawson, Colonel Richard H. |
| Bigland, Alfred | Herbert, Hon. A. (Somerset, S.) | Rees, Sir J. D. |
| Bird, Alfred | Hewins, William Albert Samuel | Remnant, James Farquharson |
| Blair, Reginald | Hickman, Colonel Thomas E. | Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) |
| Boles, Lieut.-Col. Dennis Fortescue | Hill, Sir Clement L. | Rolleston, Sir John |
| Boyle, William (Norfolk, Mid) | Hills, John Waller | Royds, Edmund |
| Boyton, James | Hill-Wood, Samuel | Rutherford, John (Lancs., Darwen) |
| Bridgeman, William Clive | Hoare, Samuel John Gurney | Rutherford, Watson (Liverpool, Derby) |
| Burdett-Coutts, William | Hope, Harry (Bute) | Salter, Arthur Clavell |
| Burn, Colonel C. R. | Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield) | Samuel, Sir Harry (Norwood) |
| Butcher, John George | Hope, Major J. A. (Midlothian) | Sanders, Robert Arthur |
| Campion, W. R. | Horne, Edgar (Surrey, Guildford) | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
| Carlile, Sir Edward Hildred | Hunt, Rowland | Spear, Sir John Ward |
| Cassel, Felix | Hunter, Sir Charles Rodk. | Stanier, Beville |
| Cator, John | Ingleby, Holcombe | Stanley, Hon. G. F. (Preston) |
| Cave, George | Jardine, Ernest (Somerset, E.) | Starkey, John Ralph |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Kerr-Smiley, Peter Kerr | Stewart, Gershom |
| Cecil, Lord Hugh (Oxford Univ.) | Kerry, Earl of | Talbot, Lord Edmund |
| Chaloner, Col. R. G. W. | Kimber, Sir Henry | Terrell, George (Wilts, N.W.) |
| Clay, Captain H. H. Spender | Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement | Terrell, Henry (Gloucester) |
| Clive, Captain Percy Archer | Knight, Captain E. A. | Thomson, W. Mitchell- (Down, N.) |
| Clyde, James Avon | Kyffin-Taylor, G. | Touche, George Alexander |
| Coates, Major Sir Edward Feetham | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Tullibardine, Marquess of |
| Cooper, Richard Ashmole | Larmor, Sir J. | Valentia, Viscount |
| Courthope, George Loyd | Law, Rt. Hon. A. Bonar (Bootle) | Ward, A. S. (Herts, Watford) |
| Craig, Captain James (Down, E.) | Lawson, Hon. H. (T. H'mts.,Mile End) | Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid) |
| Craig, Norman (Kent, Thanet) | Lewisham, Viscount | Wheler, Granville C. H. |
| Craik, Sir Henry | Locker-Lampson, O. (Ramsey) | White, Major G. D. (Lancs., Southport) |
| Crichton-Stuart, Lord Ninian | Lockwood, Rt. Hon. Lt.-Col. A. R. | Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.) |
| Cripps, Sir Charles Alfred | Long, Rt. Hon. Walter | Willoughby, Major Hon. Claud |
| Dalrymple, Viscount | Lowe, Sir F. w. (Birm., Edgbaston) | Wills, Sir Gilbert |
| Doughty, Sir George | Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. A. (S. Geo.,Han.S.) | Wood, John (Stalybridge) |
| Duke, Henry Edward | M'Neill, Ronald (Kent, St. Augustine's) | Worthington-Evans, L. |
| Eyres-Monsell, Bolton M. | Meysey-Thompson, E.C. | Wright, Henry Fitzherbert |
| Falle, Bertram Godfray | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | Yate, Col. C. E. |
| Fell, Arthur | Mills. Hon. Charles Thomas | Yerburgh, Robert A. |
| Finlay, Rt. Hon. Sir Robert | Morrison-Bell, Capt. E. F. (Ashburton) | Younger, Sir George |
| Fitzroy, Hon, Edward A. | Mount, William Arthur | |
| Fleming, Valentine | Neville, Reginald J. N. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr. Ernest Craig and Mr. John Lyttelton |
| Forster, Henry William | Newdegate, F. A. |
§ Sir FREDERICK BANBURYMay I say, on a point of Order, Sir, that I was in the Lobby just now, and the clerks took the paper on which they recorded the names of Members off the door as I was going through, and I pointed out to them that they had taken the paper off too soon, because I had not voted. This they admitted, but they said that the Tellers had left the door. May I ask whether I can now have my name recorded?
§ Mr. SPEAKERI am afraid that the hon. Member sat too long in his seat.
§ Further Government Amendments made: After the word "body" ["paid to the representative body"], insert the words "or the county council as the case 2144 may be." After the word "body" ["property of that body"], insert the words "or council."—[Mr. HcKenna.]