HC Deb 14 August 1913 vol 56 cc2787-93

  1. (1) The railway may be worked by electrical power.
  2. (2) For the purpose of working and lighting the railway and for use in any part of any post office building in communication with the railway by means of a shaft or in the buildings of the Post Office in or near St. Martin's-le-Grand and Queen Victoria Street. in the city of London and Mount Pleasant, Clerkenwell, or in any extension of any such building within a distance of fifty yards and for the purpose of general telegraphic (including telephonic) communication the Postmaster-General may lay down along the railway, 2788 and maintain and use cables, mains, lines, and apparatus for transmitting electrical energy.
  3. (3) The Postmaster-General may transmit, transform, and use for the purposes of this Act electrical energy generated or transformed at any Post Office generating station, or sub-station, and for the transmission of such electrical energy may lay down and maintain all necessary and convenient cables, mains, lines, and apparatus, but nothing in this Act shall authorise the Postmaster-General to use such electrical energy for lighting or heating any part of any post office building other than the buildings and extensions of buildings mentioned in the preceding Subsection.
  4. (4) The Postmaster-General may enter upon and open and break up streets and other public places for the purpose of laying down and maintaining cables, main lines, and apparatus—
    1. (a) from any Post Office generating station or sub-station to the railway; and
    2. (b) for the purposes of the preceding Sub-section;
    subject, however, to the following provisions and restrictions, that is to say:—
    1. (a) He shall with all convenient speed complete the work on account of which he opened or broke up the same, and fill in the ground and make good the surface, and generally restore the street -or place to as good a condition as that in which it was before being opened or broken up; and carry away all rubbish occasioned thereby;
    2. (b) He shall in the meantime cause the place where the street or public place is opened or broken up to be 2789 fenced and watched, and to be properly lighted at night;
    3. (c) He shall pay all reasonable expenses of keeping the street or public place in good repair for twelve months after the same is restored, so far as such expenses may be increased by such opening or breaking up.
  5. (5) The Postmaster-General and any company, authority, or person having power under any Act of Parliament or order confirmed by Parliament to supply electrical energy may make and carry into effect agreements and arrangements for the supply of electrical energy to the Postmaster-General for the purposes of this Act, and for executing any works or providing any apparatus necessary for the purposes of such supply, but nothing in this Sub-section shall authorise any such company, authority, or person to break up the surface of any public street or place.

Lords Amendment: Leave out Sub-Sections (2), (3), (4), and (5), and insert instead thereof:

(2) The Postmaster-General may lay down along the railway, and maintain and use cables, mains, lines, and apparatus for transmitting electrical energy for the purpose of working and lighting the railway, and for use in any part of any Post Office building in communication with the railway by means of a shaft or in the buildings of the Post Office in or near St. Martin's le-Grand and Queen Victoria Street in the City of London and Mount Pleasant, Clerkenwell, or in any extension of any such building within a distance of fifty yards and for the purpose of general telegraphic (including telephonic) communication.

(3) The Postmaster-General may transmit, transform, and use for the purposes of this Act electrical energy generated or transformed at any Post Office generating station or sub-station, and for the transmission of such electrical energy may lay down and maintain all necessary and convenient cables, mains, lines, and apparatus, but nothing in this Act shall authorise the Postmaster-General to use such electrical energy for lighting or heating any part of any Post Office building other than the buildings and extensions of buildings mentioned in the preceding Sub-section.

(4) The Postmaster-General may enter upon and open and break up streets and other public places for the purpose of laying down and maintaining cables, mains, lines, and apparatus—

  1. (a) from any post office generating station or sub-station to the railway; and
  2. (b) for any distance not exceeding fifty yards for the purpose of connecting any portion or extension of any such building as is referred to in Subsection (2) of this Section with any other portion or extension thereof or with any other such building as aforesaid

subject, however, to the following provisions and restrictions, that is to say:—

  1. (a) He shall with all convenient speed complete the work on account of which he opened or broke up the same, and fill in the ground and make good the surface, and generally restore the street or place to as good a condition as that in which it was before being opened or broken up, and carry away all rubbish occasioned thereby;
  2. (b) He shall in the meantime cause the place where the street or public place is opened or broken up to be fenced and watched, and to be properly lighted at night;
  3. (c) He shall pay all reasonable expenses of keeping the street or public place in good repair for twelve months after the same is restored, so far as such expenses may be increased by such opening or breaking up.

(5) The Postmaster-General and any company, authority, or person having power under any Act of Parliament or Order confirmed by Parliament to supply electrical energy may make and carry into effect agreements and arrangements for the supply of electrical energy to the Postmaster-General for the purposes of this Act, and for executing any works or providing any apparatus necessary for the purposes of such supply, but nothing in this Sub-section shall authorise any such company, authority, or person to break up the surface of any public street or place.

(6) The Postmaster-General shall invite tenders for the supply of electrical energy for the railway from the companies and local authorities who are empowered to give such supply, and if he is satisfied that an appreciable saving would result to the Post Office by taking a supply from any such company or local authority, the Postmaster-General shall do so.

Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL

As the House is aware, this is a Bill to enable the Post Office to work for its own purposes a tube railway through London from Paddington to the East End. It was proposed in the Bill to supply electricity for the purposes of that railway from the Post Office generating station at Blackfriars, with the alternative option to the Postmaster-General to obtain a supply of electricity from the companies or local authorities which are enabled by Parliament to supply electricity in the districts through which the railway will pass. The station at Black-friars was erected when the right hon. Member for East Worcestershire was Postmaster-General to supply electricity for the Post Office telegraphs, telephones, pneumatic tubes, lifts, electric lights, and so forth in London. It produces about four and a half million units of electricity per annum. For the purpose of this railway an additional 480,000 units, or a comparatively small proportion of the amount now produced, would be needed. To produce that extra amount in the present building would involve an initial capital expenditure of about £11,000, and the whole of the existing stations could be used for this extra load. The electric lighting companies, who appeared to form a common syndicate, asked that this power of supplying from the Blackfriars station should be struck out and that the Post Office should be obliged to go either to the electric lighting companies or to the local authorities for their supply of power. The House of Commons Committee refused this application, but the Committee of the House of Lords has acceded to it, in spite of the protest of the representatives of the Post Office who appeared before that Committee, and held that the Postmaster-General should be obliged to take his supply from outside sources, and not from his own station. To that the Government could not, of course, agree, for it might involve placing the Postmaster-General entirely in the hands of private producers who might have formed a combination against him, and charged him an excessive price. All the other tube railways have been given power by Parliament to supply themselves, if needed, and when the Bill came on in the House of Lords on the Report stage the Government in that House refused to concur with this alteration made by the House of Lords Committee. Those who have taken a view favourable to the company represent that the companies would be able to produce electricity very much more cheaply for the purposes of the railway than the Post Office station was in a position to do, and I was quite willing to give an undertaking that if it were the case that, taking everything into account, the supply from outside sources was actually cheaper and would be a saving to the Post Office, then we would take it from these outside sources. I have no desire to use my own station if it would be in fact an additional expenditure compared with taking the supply from outside sources. Of course, I should require security that the outside supply would continue and would not be at a temporary cheap rate, with the possibility of the price being increased afterwards, and, in order not to imperil the chances of the Bill, we came to an agreement in the other House to this effect, that the power of the Postmaster-General to take the supply from his own station should be restored to the Bill—that is the important thing—but that also the Postmaster-General should give an undertaking that if it were found that there was a clear saving to the Post Office by taking it from an outside source he would use his option and take it from that outside source. I think that that is a reasonable arrangement to secure us that we shall have power to take it from our own station. We will do so unless taking everything into account it appears that there will be a clear saving by getting it from some other source. I agreed to the insertion of a provision in the Bill on those lines, and on that understanding the Noble Lords agreed to restore the power to the Postmaster-General to use his own station at his own option should he so desire. The Clause which is now before the House with the Amendment proposed by the House of Lords carries out the spirit and the letter of that agreement.

Mr. BOOTH

Quite candidly I am very sorry indeed to find this compromise agreed to by the Government. If we are told that this is the only chance of getting the Bill that is a very difficult point for me to meet, but I protest against the very retrograde step which is being taken. There is very great danger in this Clause as regards the future. It is quite true that the right hon. Gentleman has said that he has power to use his own station unless it is proved that the public suffers financially by doing so, but there is no guarantee at all with regard to future years. It is quite easy for a future Postmaster-General of a dif- ferent type from any Member of the present Government to fix up an agreement under this Clause, when he is in office, that will bind his successors The consideration of whether there is a saving in one particular year never governs those of us who are connected with business. I put it to the right hon. Gentleman that there is no private firm who, having a plan of its own and opportunity to administer it, would simply look to a small financial saving in regard to a contract of that size. There are other considerations besides the mere margin of profit, and it would be a lamentable thing if because some rival company in order to prevent the Post Office from having its own stations should cut in with a tender a few pounds below what it could be done for in order to get a footing in the Post Office service. All people would agree that the Post Office should be a State Department managed by the State, and. I do not like to see a break made in that policy merely to oblige private interests. I would utter a most serious warning on this point. I am perfectly certain that if this had come in the early part of the Session instead of on the last day, there would have been pat up a most vigorous fight against this Clause, but one does not want to thwart the Government plans, and 1 only express the hope that this will be interpreted in favour of the public interests and that these private concerns may not be successful in using this opportunity to get in. The right hon. Member for East Worcestershire spoke of some of my hon. Friends, in dealing with a Bill at this late stage of the Session, as blackmailers. I do not think that it was wise, but whatever truth there was in the suggestion applies with double force to this. Simply because it is the last day of the Session and we cannot help it some private electricity companies have been able to get an advantage in the shape of this Clause, which I do not think will be successful with the present Government but may work against the public interests in future Governments.