HC Deb 23 April 1913 vol 52 cc356-7
73. Mr. GINNELL

asked the Secretary to the Treasury whether the circular issued in 1908 to old age pension officers for their guidance, embodying a scale of the value of maintenance in urban and rural districts in Great Britain and Ireland, respectively, has been withdrawn; what scale is now operative for the guidance of those officers on this point in Great Britain and in Ireland, respectively; and, in view, of the different treatment of similar cases in the two countries and the denial of Irish officers that they have any such guidance, whether copies of the instruction on which the present practice in Great Britain is based will be sent to all Irish old age pension officers?

Mr. MASTERMAN

No scale is in force for general application by pension officers in framing their estimates of the value of maintenance under either the instructions issued to pension officers in 1908 on the passing of the Act or any subsequent amending instructions. The general rule laid down for the guidance of officers in this matter is the same for Ireland as it is for Great Britain, namely, that such value must be estimated by reference to all the facts bearing on the standard of living of the person with whom the claimant resides. I see no need for the issue of any further instructions. All pension officers throughout the United Kingdom have full instructions as to their duties under the Old Age Pensions Acts; and I cannot believe that any officer in Ireland or elsewhere would allege that he is without guidance as to the lines he ought to follow [...]n estimating the value of maintenance. Certainly no instance of such a denial has come to my notice.

Mr. GINNELL

Is it not a fact that in 1908 a circular of instructions was issued embodying a scale of the value of maintenance, that this circular was never circulated among the officers in Ireland, and that consequently the practice is different there? Will this be remedied?

Mr. MASTERMAN

As far as I know, the practice is exactly the same. Each case is considered on its merits. Pension officers have the same instructions in Ireland as in England.

Mr. FLAVIN

Will the right hon. Gentleman lay on the Table of the House a copy of the instructions?

Mr. MASTERMAN

I am not sure that I can promise that. They are confidential instructions between the Treasury and its officers.

Mr. FLAVIN

That is the whole bone of contention in Ireland. We feel that the officers act unfairly towards the poor people, and we want to know upon what instructions they act?

Mr. MASTERMAN

Each case must be considered on its merits. If anything unfair has been done by any officer it is on the merits of the particular case, not on the general instructions.

Mr. GINNELL

Owing to instructions having been issued in England and not in Ireland the system of pensions in Ireland is entirely different from the system in England; will this be remedied?

Mr. MASTERMAN

If the hon. Gentleman can bring any case to my notice, I will see that any injustice is remedied.