HC Deb 25 November 1912 vol 44 cc826-7
56. Mr. GODFREY LOCKER-LAMPSON

asked the Prime Minister whether in the event of an Irish Parliament making any addition to the duties on tobacco, it will be the duty of the Joint Exchequer Board to determine the additional Excise and drawback rates on the basis of the added duty or on the basis of the whole duty, Imperial as well as Irish?

Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL

It would be the duty of the Irish Parliament to make such alterations in the Excise and drawback rates in Ireland as were rendered necessary by the additions to the duties. If those alterations were of such a character, in the opinion of the Joint Exchequer Board, as to be inconsistent with the requirements of the Statute, the action of the Irish Parliament would be ultra vires. In practice, the opinion of the Joint Exchequer Board would doubtless be taken before the alterations were made.

Mr. HEWINS

I beg to ask the Prime Minister a question of which I have given private notice, namely, whether having regard to the fact that the functions of the Join Exchequer Board are continuously involved in the Debates to-day and to-morrow, he can state what Amendments the Govern- ment intend to introduce to give effect to the pledge on behalf of the Government given by the Postmaster-General last Thursday that some power of appeal from the Joint Exchequer Board would be given on questions involving interpretation of the terms of the Government of Ireland Bill?

Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL

The promise given was one of consideration, and not a pledge that an Amendment would be inserted. But, after consideration, the Government are of opinion that it would be a convenience if the question, whether or not a service is an Irish service, should be referable directly to the Privy Council under Clause 29, without any necessity for previous determination by a Court of Law on proceedings taken to decide whether or not a particular action of the Irish Government was ultra vires. The Government are also giving consideration to the question whether an appeal from the Joint Exchequer Board to the Privy Council should not be allowed on the question whether or not a new Irish Tax is substantially the same in character as an Imperial Tax.

Sir EDWARD CARSON

May I ask when the right hon. Gentleman will be able to put the Amendments down, and whether he will consider the desirability of having some regulations as to who are to be the parties to raise the question?

Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL

This is provided for. The procedure laid down in Clause 29 is that the Lord Lieutenant or a Secretary of State can refer certain questions to the Privy Council, and I should say that the same procedure would apply in this ease. The Amendments will be put down as soon as possible, but it will be some considerable time before we reach Clause 29.

Mr. CASSEL

May I ask whether a subject on whom this independent tax is imposed would be able to raise the question?

Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL

Yes, Sir, but he would have to go to the ordinary Courts. If he did so, the ordinary Courts would have to refer it to the Joint Exchequer Board.

Mr. CASSEL

In that case would there be an appeal from the Joint Exchequer Board to the Privy Council?

Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL

I should like to have notice of that question.