HC Deb 14 November 1912 vol 43 cc2084-6
69. Sir W. BYLES

asked the Home Secretary whether his Department is carefully noting the increase in the number of corporal punishments ordered by the magistrates under the Vagrancy Act; whether there have now been at least seventeen such sentences during the present year against a total of seven during the previous three years, and that more than half of them have been passed by Mr. Lawrie, the Deputy-Chairman of the London Sessions; and whether any caution has been given by the Home Office?

Mr. McKENNA

Courts of Quartet Sessions are authorised by law to order corporal punishment for incorrigible rogues committed to the Sessions for sentence, and I have no authority to interfere with the exercise of their powers except in so far as good reason may be shown for recommending an exercise of the prerogative of mercy in any particular case. From the very small proportion of cases of incorrigible rogues in which corporal punishment is ordered, and from the proved facts of those cases which come under my notice, I am satisfied that the power in question is used with care and discrimination, and I see no reason for taking action in the direction suggested. The prisoner is in every case entitled to apply to the Court of Criminal Appeal, and the sentence is by law suspended to allow him time to do so.

71. Sir W. BYLES

asked the Home Secretary whether any statistics are available of the number of flogging punishments in English prisons; whether these punishments are ordered by one or two visiting justices after an inquiry held in private; whether they are formally submitted to, but rarely interfered with by him; and whether he will consider the advisability, in the public interest, of admitting the Press, as representing the public, to these inquiries?

Mr. McKENNA

A Return of corporal punishments awarded in prisons is given in Appendix No. 10 of the Annual Report of the Prison Commissioners which is presented to Parliament. Such punishments are awarded by the board of visitors for a convict prison or the visiting committee for a local prison, in accordance with Section 5 of the Prison Act, 1898, which requires that not less than three persons, two of whom shall be justices of the peace, should adjudicate, and that the evidence shall be given on oath. The inquiry, which is judicial, takes place in the prison, and the public are not admitted. All cases have by law to be submitted to the Secretary of State. Out of thirty cases ordered during the year ending 31st March, 1912, the Secretary of State reduced the punishment in six cases. I see no reason for any departure from the existing practice in this matter.

Mr. MORRELL

Is the prisoner represented in any way at the inquiry?

Mr. McKENNA

No.

Mr. WATT

Can the right hon. Gentleman explain why there are so many more cases of flogging than occurred under his predecessor at the Home Office?

Mr. McKENNA

The reverse is the fact. There have been fewer floggings than ever before.

Sir W. BYLES

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider whether it would be a safeguard to permit the Press to be present?

Mr. McKENNA

No; I should hardly think it would be desirable to revive public floggings.

Sir W. BYLES

The right hon. Gentleman has quite misunderstood me. I did not ask for public floggings, but for public inquiry before flogging was ordered.

Mr. McKENNA

In a sense it is not private. The visitors represent the public in a certain sense, and two of them must be justices of the peace.

72. Sir W. BYLES

asked the Home Secretary what discretion is allowed to the governors of reformatory schools to inflict the punishment of flogging; is there any judicial trial before such punishment is inflicted; are there any regulations as to who should administer or who should witness the punishment; and is there any limitation as to the kind of instrument used or the number of strokes permitted?

Mr. McKENNA

A superintendent of a reformatory school for boys has a discretion in inflicting corporal punishment within the limits of rules for the management and discipline of the school made by the managers and subject to the Secretary of State's approval. The Model Rules of the Department, which were drawn up some years ago, prescribe that chastisement may be inflicted only by the superintendent, or in his presence by an officer specially authorised by him, or by the chief educational officer who is required to report to the superintendent at once. The Model Rules allow of eighteen strokes with the birch or eight strokes with the cane as a maximum, but I issued a circular some months ago to managers stating that pending the Report of the Departmental Committee on Reformatory Schools, corporal punishment should be used as rarely as possible, and that the number of strokes should never exceed twelve.