§ Sir JOHN LONSDALEasked the Prime Minister whether, under the Government of Ireland Bill, if the proposed Irish Parliament did away with or reduced the rate of old age pensions, the equivalent amount saved would be credited to the Irish Parliament for other purposes?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELShould the Irish Government avail themselves of their power under Clause 5 of the Bill to secure the transfer of the old age pensions services, the cost at the date of transfer, as determined under the provisions of Clause 17 (4), will be added to the transferred sum at the disposal of the Irish Government, and the Irish Exchequer will thereafter secure the benefit of any savings in the cost, as it will have to meet any increase. The rights of pensioners at the time of the transfer are safeguarded by Clause 4 (a) of the Bill.
§ Mr. FELLasked what is the number of persons in receipt of old age pensions in Ireland at the present time; if this number will by the death tables decrease considerably in the next ten years; and if he can state what will be the estimated number of pensioners there in each of the following ten years?
§ Mr. MASTERMANThe total number of pensions payable in Ireland on the last Friday of the quarter ending 31st March last was 205,317. Against any decrease in the next few years must be set the increase owing to the removal of the pauper disqualification, the effect of which will probably be increasingly felt. I fear I am unable to give an estimate of the number of pensioners in future years in Ireland.
§ Mr. CASSELasked whether, seeing that the view expressed on behalf of the Government in the outline of financial provisions that the cost of old age pensions in Ireland will decrease is at variance with the views expressed by the Committee on Irish Finance in their Report, the right hon. Gentleman will state how it is proposed that the Exchequer Board, in the event of old age pensions in Ireland being taken over by the Irish administration, shall estimate the cost of this service?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELIn the event indicated the Joint Exchequer Board will no doubt take into consideration when estimating the cost of old age pensions in Ireland all the data then available. It is not proposed to prescribe the manner in which they shall arive at their estimates.
§ Mr. CASSELWill the right hon. Gentleman answer my question, how it will be possible for the Exchequer Board—in view of the difference of opinion between the Government and the Committee as to the increase or decrease of 396 the charge for this service—to determine that matter?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELI shall be very happy to discuss the hon. Member's question when we come to discuss the Clauses.