HC Deb 08 May 1912 vol 38 cc396-7
Mr. AMERY

asked (1) whether, under the provisions of the Government of Ireland Bill, the proposed Irish Government would be able to raise the Customs and Excise Duty on sugar and then give back the Excise to Irish producers of sugar in the form of a bounty; and, if so, whether such a policy would involve a discrimination not only against British sugar, but also against British confectionery, jam, biscuits, and mineral waters; (2) whether, under the provisions of the Government of Ireland Bill, the proposed Irish Government would be able to raise the Customs and Excise Duty on tobacco and then give back the Excise to the Irish producers to tobacco in the form of a bounty; and (3) whether, under the provisions of the Government of Ireland Bill, the proposed Irish Government would be able to raise the Customs and Excise Duty on spirits and then give back the Excise to Irish producers of spirits in the form of a bounty?

Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL

I will answer these three questions together. Clause 15 (d) provides that the Excise Duty shall correspond to the Customs Duty, and there can be no doubt that the course suggested in the question of levying an Excise Duty and of returning the proceeds to the payers so as to effect, in practice, a differentiation between the rates of Customs and Excise would be an evasion of that provision and would be held to be ultra vires.

Mr. AMERY

What provision is there in the Bill to prevent the Irish Government giving a slightly different amount in bounties in such a way as to be not an absolute evasion of the provision and yet give adequate protection to Irish produce?

Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL

It would depend on the merits of the case whether it was ultra vires or not. The Irish Government, like any other Government, will be able to make a Grant to a particular industry for the encouragement of that industry.

Mr. AMERY

Who would decide whether it was ultra vires?

Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL

The Courts.

Mr. CASSEL

Would not the Courts decide the question according to the language of the Statute, and not whether it was an evasion or not?

Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL

By the intention of the Statute as declared by its language.