HC Deb 28 March 1912 vol 36 cc733-5

The maximum rate in the pound for the purposes of the proviso to Section twenty-three of the Metropolitan Police Act, 1829, as amended by Section two of the Police Rate Act, 1868 (by which enactments a limit is imposed on the annual sum to be provided for the purposes of the Metropolitan Police) shall be elevenpence instead of ninepence; and those sections shall, subject to the provisions of any subsequent enactment, have effect accordingly:—

Provided that—

  1. (a) in calculating for the purposes of paragraph (k) of Sub-section (2) of Section twenty-four of the Local Government Act, 1888 (which regulates the amount to be paid by county councils to the receiver for the Metropolitan Police district and charged to the Exchequer Contribution Accounts) the amount actually raised by rates from the parishes in any county, only such part thereof shall be reckoned as does not exceed the maximum amount which could have been so raised if this Act had not been passed; and
  2. (b) before approving the issue of any warrants under Section twenty-three of the Metropolitan Police Act, 1829, by the effect of which the annual sum to be provided for the purposes of the Metropolitan Police to which the said limit applies will be in any year for the first time increased above the rate of tenpence in the pound, the Secretary of State shall lay before Parliament a minute stating the reasons for such increase; and if within the next twenty days on which either House has sat after any such minute has been laid before it, an Address is presented to His Majesty by either House praying that the said increase be not made, no further proceedings shall be taken in virtue of the said minute without prejudice to the presentation to Parliament of any new minute.

Lords Amendments: In paragraph (b), leave out the words "in any year will be," and insert instead thereof the words" to which the said limit applies will be in any year."

In paragraph (b), leave out the words "House of Commons," and insert instead thereof the word "Parliament."

Lords Amendments agreed to.

In paragraph (b), leave out the word "the" ["on which the House has sat"], and insert instead thereof the word "either."

In paragraph (b), leave out the words, "the said increase shall not then be made," and insert instead thereof the words "no further proceedings shall be taken in virtue of the said minute without prejudice to the presentation to Parliament of any new minute."

Mr. SPEAKER

These Lords Amendments are "privilege" Amendments. Their effect is to give to the House of Lords the power of altering the amount of the rate. By passing an Address, the House of Lords would be able to reduce the rate from 11d. to 10d. This would be a variation of the rate and a breach, therefore, of the Commons' privileges.

Sir FREDERICK BANBURY

May I ask whether it is the intention of the Government to introduce a Bill to prevent the Lords from interfering?

The SECRETARY of STATE for the HOME DEPARTMENT (Mr. McKenna)

I am going to ask the House to waive the objection on this occasion. The reason is a very simple one. The ordinary practice in regard to Addresses to the Crown is that such Addresses may be moved by either House of Parliament. I do not think there is any exact precedent for an Address to the Crown being presented by the Lords in a case like this, which involves rates. Therefore in introducing the Bill in this House we did not include the power in the other House to move an Address; but inasmuch as there is no serious objection to that, and it will be more in conformity with cases of that kind, I beg to move, "That this House do waive its objection."

Mr. JAMES HOPE

I think that the Home Secretary is quite right on this occasion. I only wish that he and his friends had shown equal wisdom when the Lords Amendments to the Old Age Pensions, which were in the interests of the unfortunate poor, were resisted and defeated by the Government on the technical ground of privilege.

Question, "That the House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendments," put, and agreed to.

Lords further Amendments agreed to.

Mr. SPEAKER

A special entry shall be made in the Journal that the House has waived its privilege.

Sir F. BANBURY

I hope the House will remember that on another occasion.

And, it being after half-past Eleven of the clock, Mr. SPEAKER adjourned the House without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order.

Adjourned at Twenty-eight minutes before Twelve o'clock until to-morrow (Friend) at noon.