HC Deb 13 June 1912 vol 39 cc1062-4
Sir W. BYLES

Might I ask a question on a point of Order. Whether it is not an abuse of the rules and practice of the House for an hon. Member to move the Closure on a Debate a moment after he has voted for its adjournment—that is to say, for its continuance?

Mr. SPEAKER

I should have thought it was very praiseworthy, for the hon. Member then sees what is the feeling of the House, and, having ascertained that it is anxious to bring the Debate to an end, he then proceeds to move the Closure.

Mr. KING

May I also allude to a matter arising out of the conclusion of the Debate last night? I find, on consulting the OFFICIAL REPORT of yesterday's proceedings, that it is stated that at the conclusion of the Attorney-General's speech the Prime Minister rose in his place and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put." But, on reference to the Votes and Proceedings, there is no record that the Prime Minister moved the Closure. When we find the two official records of the House in conflict, which are we to believe; and, under the special circumstances of this case, can some correction be made in the one or the other to bring them into accord?

Mr. SPEAKER

I am very sorry the discrepancy should have arisen. The Votes and Proceedings are the authoritative statement as to what occurred. Of course, the OFFICIAL REPORT will be brought eventually into accord with that. I must take upon myself the blame for the mistake having arisen. What happened was, as far as I could see, that at one minute to eleven the Prime Minister rose and the Noble Lord (Lord Hugh Cecil) also rose. There was then, as the hon. Member will remember, a considerable amount of excitement and some noise in the House, and the result was that the observations of neither reached my ears. I thought the Prime Minister, seeing that there was still a minute left, had given way for the moment to the Noble Lord with the view of allowing him to ask some question. Therefore I called upon the Noble Lord. I was not aware that the Prime Minister had moved the Closure. The sound did not reach my ears. The hon. Member is aware of what happened afterwards. Then it occurred to me at a later period, in thinking the matter over, that possibly when the Prime Minister rose he had moved the Closure, although I had not heard it, and then I discovered that it had been entered on the Votes and Proceedings, but as it did not reach my ears, and as I had not considered it and certainly had not refused it, I did not think it right that the entry should appear.

The PRIME MINISTER

Perhaps I may be allowed to say that I did rise with the intention of moving the Closure and I moved it so far as I could. I am not alto- gether surprised, under the circumstances, that my intention was not conveyed as far as the Chair.

Mr. PEEL

Does not the difficulty arise from the fact that Ministers always move the Closure in words which do not reach the rest of the House?

Mr. SPEAKER

However distinctly they were pronounced last night there would have been great difficulty in reaching my ears. The hon. Member will remember that I could not hear what the Noble Lord said either. It was not until he came to the Chair that I was able to make out what the Motion was that he wished to move.