HC Deb 10 June 1912 vol 39 cc516-7
33. Viscount WOLMER

asked the Home Secretary whether he could now state how many Churches and how many mission halls, and how many communicants of the Church, and how many Calvinistic Methodist chapels and mission halls and communicants there were in Cardiff; whether any conclusion could be drawn from these figures as to which denomination did most to meet the religious needs of the people of Cardiff; whether he could state if the Established Church (Wales) Bill would in any way assist the good work at present carried on in Cardiff by the Calvinistic Methodists; and how much of the property of the Church in Cardiff would be confiscated under the terms of that Bill?

Mr. McKENNA

The full statistics for the Church of England are given in Volume V. of the Appendices to the Report of the Welsh Church Commission (Cd. paper 5436, page 39), and the statistics for the Calvinistic Methodists in Volume VI. (Cd. paper 5437, pages 250 and 260). The list of Calvinistic Methodist Forward Movement Halls is given in Volume I., Part II. (Cd. paper 5432—I., page 167). One conclusion that can be drawn from the statistics referred to is that the mission work of the Church of England in Cardiff is less than that of the Calvinistic Methodists alone. Inasmuch as the Established Church (Wales) Bill is warmly supported by the Calvinistic Methodists of Cardiff, who regard it as an act of bare justice, I cannot think it will be other than helpful to them and other Churches in their good work. I am further led to the opinion that it will tend towards better co-operation in good work among all Christian Churches. None of the property of the Church will be confiscated under the Bill. As far as I have been able to obtain figures for Cardiff, about £700 a year now held in trust by the Church for national purposes, but at present not devoted to those purposes, will be alienated from the present trustees and the property restored to the original beneficiaries of the trust.

Lord NINIAN CRICHTON-STUART

Are we to understand that the right hon. Gentleman has not been to Wales to find out the wishes of the Welsh people?

Mr. G. LLOYD

Was it on these statistics the right hon. Gentleman based his speech the other day?

Mr. McKENNA

Yes.

Lord ROBERT CECIL

On what ground does the right hon. Gentleman say that the missionary efforts of the Church of England in Cardiff are less than those of the Calvinistic Methodists?

Mr. McKENNA

It is the conclusion the Noble Lord may draw from the statistics, the authorities for which I have quoted.

Lord ROBERT CECIL

But what mental process has the right hon. Gentleman been through in order to arrive at that conclusion?