NAVY AND AEMY EXPENDITURE, 1910–11 [29th July]. (Hansard, 31 July 1912)

§ Mr. WATSON RUTHERFORD
Some of us would like to know what this is about. I have no doubt it is quite in order, but to us here it sounds something of a character which ought to be in the Appropriation Bill. I think we are entitled to a few words of explanation.

§ The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the ADMIRALTY (Dr. Macnamara)
We are dealing with the appropriation of the moneys voted in 1910–11. During the year we have power to apply from time to time to the Treasury for temporary sanction in respect of over-spendings and under - spendings on the votes. The Treasury can give its temporary sanction by virtue of the power which it has, and Parliament gives its approval, under section 4 of the Appropriation Act. Parliament gave us in 1910–11 £40,603,700. We estimated to receive appropriations in aid to the amount of £1,808,824. Therefore we had at disposal a total of £42,412,524. As a matter of fact we spent actually in this year £28,895 10s. 10d. more than the aggregate sums estimated for these services, the total expenditure being £42,441,419 10s. 10d. But we received in appropriations in aid, £213,259 12s. 11d. more than we estimated for. If we take the excess spendings, £28,895 10s. 10d. from excess of appropriations in aid, £213,259 12s. 11d., there is a surplus of £181,364 2s. 1d. We cannot do this without bringing the matter specifically before Parliament, so we come for an excess vote of £100 which we got on 29th February, and this makes the surplus, not £184,364 2s. 1d., but £184,464 2s. 1d

§ Mr. HICKS BEACH
May we have some explanation from the War Office?

§ The FINANCIAL SECRETARY to the WAR OFFICE (Mr. Harold Baker)
I do not think I need add anything to what my right hon. Friend has said with regard to the general conditions under which this Motion is brought forward. I imagine that the explanation the hon. Member wishes is in regard to the particular figures. The total surpluses on those Estimates is £329,734 19s. 10d. and the total deficits £119,126 8s. 8d. and the net surplus is £210,680 11s. 2d. It will be seen that the main Votes on which these surpluses and deficits have been accumulated are No. 4, No. 7, No. 9, and No. 10. In the Appropriation Account there is a full explanation of all the facts by the Comptroller and Auditor-General. With regard to the Territorial Force the hon. Member will find that the surplus was mainly owing to fewer men having come up for training. With regard to armaments the surplus has arisen owing to the introduction of the new howitzer and a delay in settling patterns of equipment. The surplus in works and buildings is due almost entirely to the fact of much slower progress than was expected on certain new works and in alterations and repairs being carried out on old buildings. The main deficits were in Vote 7 and Vote 8. In Vote 7, too, how an estimate was made of the amount of clothing soldiers were likely to purchase under the new system. These Estimates were prepared in 1909 and they cover a period lasting until March 1911. Over that period of more than twelve months it was extremely difficult to calculate all the unforeseen events which were likely to happen. I hope that next year we shall make a much closer approximation than we have in the past. The figure is a comparatively small variation on the total amount of the Estimates if you add the surpluses and the deficits so as to get the total amount of variation. It will be found it only amounts to about 1.7 of the total Vote.

§ Mr. WATSON RUTHERFORD
It appears from the explanation to which we have just listened that the Government have been pursuing the same course of action during the period included in these accounts as they have done in previous years, namely, spending on one purpose money voted by Parliament for an entirely different purpose. We have listened to most deplorable admissions on the part of the Government. The hon. Gentleman has admitted that the Government have been starving the Territorials, that they have got less men, that buildings have been delayed, and a variety of other shortcomings which altogether make a most disgraceful total. There is hardly a single item which does not amount practically to an admission of incompetence. One of the most melancholy things is that they have attained the result that everyone in the House expected for such conduct, namely, that they have less men, and they actually take credit for having spent less money because they have fewer men to spend it upon. Anyone with any sense of responsibility whatever would be heartily ashamed of it"

Total Surpluses	…	£337,724	12	11
Total Deficits	…	153,360	10	10
Net Surplus	…	£184,364	2	1

Total Surpluses	£329,734	19	10
Total Deficits	119,126	8	8
Net Surplus	£210,608	11	2