§ Resolved, That it is expedient to authoise the Remission of a Debt due to the Public Works Loan Commissioners, in pursuance of any Act of the present Session to grant money for the purpose of certain Local Loans out of the Local Loans Fund, and for other purposes relating to Local Loans.—[Mr. Masterman.]
§ Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Chairman do report the Resolution to the House."
§ Mr. C. BATHURSTDo we understand Mr. Maclean, that we have reached the Committee stage of this Bill, because if that is so I desire to move an Amendment.
The DEPUTY-CHAIRMANIt is not the Committee stage of the Bill. The Question is "That I report this Resolution to the House."
§ Sir ARTHUR MARKHAMOn a point of Order. This Bill was down for Second Reading, and I would like to ask at what stage it is now before the House?
§ Mr. MASTERMANOn a point, of Order. The Bill had its Second Reading yesterday; it will go into the Committee stage to-morrow. I understand that this is merely an empowering Resolution.
§ Sir A. MARKHAMOn my point of Order—
The DEPUTY-CHAIRMANI do not know what is the hon. Baronet's point of Order. The Minister has explained to the Committee how the matter stands.
§ Sir A. MARKHAMI think I am entitled to discuss on the question of this
§ Resolution the advisability of whether or not this Bill should be passed.
§ Sir A. MARKHAMI should like to be quite clear on that point: am I entitled to raise the principle contained in the Bill?
§ Sir F. BANBURYMay I ask on a point of Order whether or not the only Question before the Committee is that you report this Resolution to the House.
§ Mr. WATSON RUTHERFORDMay I very respectfully ask—
The DEPUTY-CHAIRMANThere is no opportunity now for discussion. The whole Question before the Committee is whether I report the Resolution or not.
§ Mr. WATSON RUTHERFORDOn a point of Order. I wish simply very respectfully to ask what the Resolution is that is before the House. We have not been able to catch it.
The DEPUTY-CHAIRMANThe Resolution which I read to the Committee was sufficiently clear. I am sorry it was not heard.
§ Question put.
§ Viscount HELMSLEY(seated and covered): I desire to ask you Mr. Maclean, if this question be negatived by the Committee—
§ Viscount HELMSLEYWould the Resolution be passed or not passed. What would happen to it?
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 224; Noes, 60.
2217| Division No. 183.] | AYES. | [11.30 p.m. |
| Abraham, William (Dublin Harbour) | Baker, H. T. (Accrington) | Bowerman, C. W. |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Baker, Joseph Allen (Finsbury, E.) | Boyle, D. (Mayo, N.) |
| Adamson, William | Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Brady, Patrick Joseph |
| Addison, Dr. C. | Beauchamp, Sir Edward | Bridgeman, William Clive |
| Agg-Gardner, James Tynte | Beck, Arthur Cecil | Brocklehurst, William B. |
| Alden, Percy | Benn, W. W. (T. H'mts, St. George) | Brunner, John F. L. |
| Allen, A. A. (Dumbartonshire) | Bentham, G. J. | Bryce, J. Annan |
| Allen, Rt. Hon. Charles Peter (Stroud) | Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine | Burke, E. Haviland- |
| Armitage, Robert | Boland, John Pius | Burns, Rt. Hon. John |
| Arnold, Sydney | Booth, Frederick Handel | Byles, Sir William Pollard |
| Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Home, C. Silvester (Ipswich) | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. |
| Cawley, Sir Frederick (Prestwich) | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | O'Shee, James John |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Hudson, Walter | O'Sullivan, Timothy |
| Clough, William | Isaacs, Rt. Hon. Sir Rufus | Outhwaite, R. L. |
| Collins, Godfrey P. (Greenock) | Jardine, Sir John (Roxburgh) | Palmer, Godfrey Mark |
| Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | John, Edward Thomas | Parker, James (Halifax) |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | Jones, Edgar (Merthyr Tydvil) | Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek) |
| Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Jones, H. Haydn (Merioneth) | Pease, Rt. Hon. J. A. (Rotherham) |
| Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth) | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire) | Philipps, Col. Ivor (Southampton) |
| Crawshay-Williams, Eliot | Jowett, Frederick William | Pollard, Sir George H. |
| Crumley, Patrick | Joyce, Michael | Power, Patrick Joseph |
| Cullinan, John | Keating, Matthew | Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) |
| Davies, David (Montgomery Co.) | Kellaway, Frederick George | Priestley, Sir Arthur (Grantham) |
| Davies, Timothy (Lincs., Louth) | Kelly, Edward | Pringle, William M. R. |
| Dawes, James Arthur | Kennedy, Vincent Paul | Radford, George Heynes |
| De Forest, Baron | Kilbride, Denis | Raffan, Peter Wilson |
| Delany, William | King, Joseph | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough) |
| Denman, Hon. Richard Douglas | Lambert, Rt. Hon. G. (Devon,S.Molton) | Rea, Rt. Hon. Russell (South Shields) |
| Devlin, Joseph | Lambert, Richard (Wilts, Cricklade) | Reddy, Michael |
| Dickson, Rt. Hon. C. Scott | Lardner, James Carrige Rushe | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) |
| Dillon, John | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, West) | Rendall, Athelstan |
| Duffy, William | Lawson, Sir W. (Cumb'rld, Cockerm'th) | Richardson, Albion (Peckham) |
| Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) | Levy, Sir Maurice | Richardson, Thomas (Whitehaven) |
| Edwards, Sir Francis (Radnor) | Lewis, John Herbert | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) |
| Edwards, John Hugh (Glamorgan, Mid) | Lundon, Thomas | Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) |
| Elibank, Rt. Hon. Master of | Lyell, Charles Henry | Robertson, John M. (Tyneside) |
| Elverston, Sir Harold | Lynch, Arthur Alfred | Roch, Walter F. |
| Esmonde, Dr. John (Tipperary, N.) | Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) | Rowlands, James |
| Esmonde, Sir Thomas (Wexford, N.) | Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk Burghs) | Rowntree, Arnold |
| Essex, Richard Walter | Macnamara, Rt. Hon. Dr. T. J. | Samuel, J. (Stockton) |
| Falconer, James | MacNeill, John G. S. (Donegal, South) | Sanders, Robert Arthur |
| Farrell, James Patrick | MacVeagh, Jeremiah | Scanian, Thomas |
| Ferens, Rt. Hon. Thomas Robinson | McGhee, Richard | Scott, A. MacCallum (Glas., Bridgeton) |
| Ffrench, Peter | McKenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald | Seely, Rt. Hon. Col. J. E. B. |
| Field, William | Manfield, Harry | Sheehy, David |
| Flennes, Hon. Eustace Edward | Marks, Sir George Croydon | Shortt, Edward |
| Fitzgibbon, John | Marshall, Arthur Harold | Simon, Sir John Allsebrook |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | Martin, Joseph | Smith, Albert (Lancs., Clitheroe) |
| Furness, Stephen | Masterman, Rt. Hon. C. F. G. | Smyth, Thomas F. |
| Gelder, Sir W. A. | Meagher, Michael | Stanley, Albert (Staffs, N.W.) |
| Gill, Alfred Henry | Meehan, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.) | Sutton, John E. |
| Gladstone, W. G. C. | Middlebrook, William | Talbot, Lord Edmund |
| Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford | Molloy, Michael | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) |
| Greig, Colonel James William | Mond, Sir Alfred M. | Tennant, Harold John |
| Griffith, Ellis Jones | Money, L. G. Chiozza | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton) |
| Guest, Major Hon. C. H. C. (Pembroke) | Mooney, John J. | Ure, Rt. Hon. Alexander |
| Guest, Hon. Frederick E. (Dorset, E.) | Morgan, George Hay | Verney, Sir H. |
| Guinness, Hon. W.E. (Bury S.Edmunds) | Morison, Hector | Walsh, Stephen (Lancs., Ince) |
| Hackett, John | Muldoon, John | Warner, Sir Thomas Courtenay |
| Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | Munro, Robert | Webb, H. |
| Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, W.) | Munro-Ferguson, Rt. Hon. R. C. | White, J. Dundas (Glasgow, Tradeston) |
| Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N.E.) | Murray, Captain Hon. Arthur C. | White, Sir Luke (Yorks, E.R.) |
| Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | Nannetti, Joseph P. | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Havelock-Allan, Sir Henry | Needham, Christopher T. | Whyte, A. F. (Perth) |
| Hayden, John Patrick | Nicholson, Sir Charles N. (Doncaster) | Wiles, Thomas |
| Hazleton, Richard | Nolan, Joseph | Wilkie, Alexander |
| Helme, Sir Norval Watson | Nuttall, Harry | Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.) |
| Hemmerde, Edward George | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) | Wood, Rt. Hon. T. McKinnon (Glas.) |
| Henry, Sir Charles | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor (Mon., S.) | O'Donnell, Thomas | Young, William (Perth, East) |
| Higham, John Sharp | O'Dowd, John | Younger, Sir George |
| Hinds, John | O'Kelly, Edward P. (Wicklow, W.) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Mr. |
| Hodge, John | O'Kelly, J. (Roscommon, N.) | Illingworth and Mr. Gulland. |
| Hogge, James Myles | O'Malley, William | |
| Hope, John Deans (Haddington) | O'Neill, Dr. Charles (Armagh, S.) | |
| NOES. | ||
| Aitken, Sir William Max | Carlile, Sir Edward Hildred | Henderson, Major H. (Berkshire) |
| Ashley, Wilfrid W. | Cassel, Felix | Holt, Richard Durning |
| Bagot, Lieut.-Colonel J. | Cautley, Henry Strother | Kerr-Smiley, Peter Kerr |
| Baird, J. L. | Chaloner, Col. R. G. W. | Lane-Fox, G. R. |
| Baker, Sir Randolf L. (Dorset, N.) | Chambers, James | Lewisham, Viscount |
| Banner, John S. Harmood- | Clive, Captain Percy Archer | Locker-Lampson, O. (Ramsey) |
| Barlow, Montague (Salford, South) | Craig, Captain James (Down, E.) | Lowe, Sir F. W. (Birm., Edgbaston) |
| Barnston, H. | Craig, Norman (Kent, Thanet) | Mackinder, Halford J. |
| Bathurst, Charles (Wilts, Wilton) | Dalrymple, Viscount | Macmaster, Donald |
| Beach, Hon. Michael Hugh Hicks | Eyres-Monsell, Bolton M. | McNeillp, Ronald (Kent, St. Augustine's) |
| Benn, Arthur Shirley (Plymouth) | Fetherstonhaugh, Godfrey | Malcolm, Ian |
| Bennett-Goldney, Francis | Goldsmith, Frank | Morrison-Bell, Capt. E. F. (Ashburton) |
| Bigland, Alfred | Gordon, John (Londonderry, South) | Parkes, Ebenezer |
| Bird, Alfred | Guinness, Hon. Rupert (Essex, S.E.) | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington) |
| Boles, Lieut.-Col. Dennis Fortescue | Gwynne, R. S. (Sussex, Eastbourne) | Perkins, Walter Frank |
| Bull, Sir William James | Helmsley, Viscount | Pollock, E. M. |
| Pryce-Jones, Col. E. | Wedgwood, Josiah C. | Yate, Col. C. E. |
| Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel | Whaler, Granville C. H. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Sir |
| Sandys, G. J. | Wood, Hon. E. F. L. (Yorks, Ripon) | Arthur Markham and Mr. Watson |
| Spear, Sir John Ward | Wood, John (Stalybridge) | Rutherford. |
| Stewart, Gershom | Wright, Henry Fitzherbert | |
| Touche, George Alexander |
§ Resolution to be reported To-morrow (Thursday).