§ 2. Mr. DOUGLAS HALLasked what was the first date on which he had reports as to the ill-treatment of natives in the Putumayo district?
§ Sir E. GREYMy attention was first drawn to this matter as a result of the articles which appeared in "Truth" in September and October, 1909.
§ 6. Mr. KINGasked whether the crimes charged against men in the employ of the Peruvian Amazon Company and the charges against the methods of the company's administration on the Putumayo have been considered with a view to ascertaining how far the directors of the Peruvian Amazon Company, who had been on the Putumayo, were personally cognisant of the crimes disclosed in Sir R. Casement's Report; and whether any charge will be preferred against the directors or officials of the company?
§ Sir E. GREYWhen the matter was first brought to their notice the British directors made it clear that they had no knowledge of the state of affairs; they appointed a Commission, which was evidently sent in good faith to inquire on the spot. I am not aware of any ground on which His Majesty's Government could take action respecting them.
§ Mr. DOUGLAS HALLWhy was there not included in the Blue Book which was issued any correspondence between the company and the Foreign Office?
§ Sir E. GREYBecause we did not think that the correspondence which took place between the company and the Government was really material to the main point at issue, which was the treatment of British subjects, Barbadians, who were in the Putumayo, and the general state of affairs in that district.
§ Mr. DOUGLAS HALLWere they not officers of the directors who perpetrated these cruelties, and is not the principal responsible for his agents?
§ Sir E. GREYThey were agents of the company who were there.
§ Mr. MITCHELL-THOMSONHas the company's Commission reported to the company, and, if so, have the Foreign Office seen the Report?
§ Sir E. GREYYes, Sir, I understand that the company's Commission did report to the company.
§ Mr. MITCHELL-THOMSONHave the Foreign Office seen that Report?
§ Sir E. GREYI am not quite sure that we have seen the Report, but in any case 958 the Report of Sir Roger Casement, who was instructed by us, is the document to which I attach the most importance.
§ Mr. JOHN WARDIs there any conflict of opinion between the two Reports, the Report sent in to the Foreign Office and the Report by the Commission appointed by the company?
§ Sir E. GREYSo far as I recollect the Reports were to the same effect. Of course, the one for which I take responsibility is that of Sir Roger Casement.
§ Mr. KINGMay we take it that the directors fully recognise the validity and truthfulness of Sir Roger Casement's Report?
§ Sir E. GREYOh, yes. So far as I am aware the directors have never disputed the state of affairs which was disclosed. What they have contended was that they were entirely ignorant of the state of affairs before Sir Roger Casement's and their own Commission went there.
8. Mr. CATHCART WASONasked the right hon. Gentleman if, in view of the impossibility of checking the methods of collecting rubber by a company more or less of an English character, he could, either with or without the assistance of the American Government, appoint a Consul at Iquitos, with instructions to forward regular reports of the treatment of the Indians?
§ Sir E. GREYA salaried British Consul has recently been appointed at Iquitos His instructions will be found on page 160 of the Blue Book. The United States Government have made a similar appointment.
§ 9 and 10. Mr. MORRELLasked (9) whether any of the persons whose names were brought by him before the Government of Peru in March, 1911, as being guilty of gross atrocities in the district of Putumayo have yet been arrested and punished; (10) whether he has any information showing that the system of forced labour in the district of Putumayo, as described by Sir Roger Casement in 1910, has since been modified or abandoned?
§ Sir E. GREYI have no information at present beyond what is contained in the Blue Book. The instructions to our Consul are to send a Report, and until he has been able to visit the district and send a Report, I shall have no further direct information.
§ Mr. HUNTCan the right hon. Gentleman say whether there are any British subjects among those who have been tortured?
§ Sir E. GREYI cannot give more information than the Blue Book, which explains that there were Barbadians in the district when Sir Roger Casement went there, and that he attended to their complaints and their condition, and, I think, brought some of them away.
§ Sir E. GREYYes, he is a British subject.
§ Mr. MORRELLCan the right hon. Gentleman say when the Report of the British Consul may be expected?
§ Sir E. GREYNo, Sir, I cannot say that definitely. He has not yet been able to visit the district of Putumayo. I am instructing him that he should concert with his United States colleague, who is there with the object of visiting the district, as soon as that can conveniently be done—the district is not easily accessible —because I want to have a Report as soon as he can conveniently send it.
§ Mr. KINGWill the district visited by the Consul at Iquitos comprise other tributaries of the Amazon besides the Putumayo?
12. Mr. WILLIAM REDMONDasked what steps have been taken in reference to the atrocities reported from Peru, in connection with the Amazon Rubber Company; and whether this is a British company?
§ Sir E. GREYAs regards the first part of the question, I would refer the hon. Member to the recent Blue Book. The answer to the second part is in the affirmative; the company is now, I believe, in voluntary liquidation.
Mr. W. REDMONDCan the right hon. Gentleman give the House and the public any assurance that pending the negotiations which he told us are taking place with the Peruvian Government, and the inquiries which are being made, that none of these atrocities are still continuing, and whether any steps can be taken to put an end to them?
§ Sir E. GREYI cannot give any more direct information about the state of affairs in the district until I have received the further Report from our Consul. It must be borne in mind that the district is one in which we have no jurisdiction ourselves, and in which we do not intend, and obviously it would be impossible for us to intend, to incur any responsibility for its administration. I thought it right, when I heard that there were Barbadians there, to send a British Consul to inquire into the state of affairs. Having got the information which that inquiry produced, I thought it ought not to be kept to ourselves, and it has been published. Beyond that I cannot promise any definite steps.
Mr. W. REDMONDAre we to understand from the right hon. Gentleman's statement that he is without knowledge as to whether these atrocities are still being continued, and can no steps be taken to secure that an end shall be put to them pending inquiries?
§ Sir E. GREYI should not put it in that way. I should say with regard to the administration of the district, for which we are not and cannot be responsible, I cannot undertake the responsibility of making a statement as to what is actually going on there, except when I happened to have direct information on the subject.
§ Lord ROBERT CECILWhen did the British Consul get to Iquitos, and how long has he been there?
§ Sir E. GREYHe got there early in this year, and he has been there for some months. He was not well on his first arriving there. He has already made one journey to the neighbouring district. The instructions to him now are, as soon as he can conveniently do so, to go to Putumayo. I have also told him to concert with his United States colleague, who has been sent there, we believe, for the same purpose of getting information.
§ Mr. DOUGLAS HALLIs it not a fact that one of the directors, who was a member of the Board when the atrocities were committed, holds office under the Crown?
§ Sir E. GREYPerhaps the hon. Gentleman will give me notice of that question.