CLASS 2.—DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE (IRELAND). (Hansard, 27 February 1912)

§ Mr. JAMES MASON
I desire to ask whether precautions have been taken to avoid overlapping on the question of research carried out in Ireland and that carried out in this country and in Scotland, because it seems to me quite possible that a good deal of work might be duplicated unless some precaution is taken to avoid it? I should also like to ask whether steps have been taken to ensure the free interchange of results as to discoveries in all the different countries, so that the department of research in Ireland should work as far as possible with the departments in this country, so that the results might be beneficial to both?

The VICE-PRESIDENT of the DEPARTMENT of AGRICULTURE (Ireland) (Mr. T. W. Russell)
Yes, the hon. Member may rest assured every care will be taken.

Captain CRAIG
There were a large number of questions addressed to the right hon. Gentlemen by Members on this side of the House last night, and at this stage I would like him to answer one particular question, and that is as regards the new dredger. I do not see how, if the local harbours are to be kept properly dredged irrespective of their geographical situation, it can be done if we have to depend upon the service of one small dredger. I myself drew attention to that particular point before, and others touched upon the same point, but we got no answer. As everybody is aware, there are certain small harbours which constantly require dredging. The traders themselves, in some 1200 instances, maintain a dredger, but some of these dredgers have now become obsolete, and I am confident it will give these people great gratification to know that they will be spared the cost of providing a new dredger and that they can count absolutely upon the fairness of the Department of Agriculture to send the dredger to their assistance. I ask also whether this dredger, costing a sum of £4,250, is a new dredger constructed specially for the work which is necessary in Irish harbours or whether it is an old dredger bought at second-hand? I should also like to know if the right hon. Gentleman is aware that unless the Department show no partiality in the use of the dredger local industries would be handicapped very much in certain quarters, as the fishing industry has been hit in many parts of Ireland owing to the partiality of the Department? If the dredger is only allowed to assist certain harbours, it would place a premium on certain places as against those who by their own industry and at their own expense have been dredging harbours. It would be satisfactory if the right hon. Gentleman would make a precise statement on the matter, and say how the work of this dredger is to be apportioned?

§ Mr. RUSSELL
The dredger will be given to all harbour authorities that require it. The Department will not offer any objection. On any application made by a harbour body the dredger will, as far as is possible, be supplied. It cannot be supplied to all at once, and one dredger is too small to keep up the whole work, but certainly there will be no partisanship or partiality shown. Every application for its use will be considered. The dredger is not a new one. A new dredger would cost a great deal more, but the Department have satisfied themselves that this dredger is capable of doing the work.

Captain CRAIG
I would ask the right hon. Gentleman, because there is great interest in this matter in Ireland, whether he will not circularise all the harbour authorities in Ireland to say that this dredger will be available, and is at their disposal?

§ Mr. RUSSELL
That would be rather an extraordinary duty to put upon the Department. All those authorities know perfectly well that the dredger is there, and as a matter of fact we have already many applications for it. I will consider the matter.

§ Mr. RONALD M'NEILL
I understood the right hon. Gentleman to say that this dredger would only be available for work on application by the harbour authority. Does the right hon. Gentleman know there are many harbours in Ireland where, in a sense, there is no harbour authority, but where the harbour is under the control of some local person or persons. Will the dredger will be available on the application of such people as those?

§ Mr. RUSSELL
I used the words "harbour authorities" in the widest sense.

§ Mr. MOORE
I desire to say a few words as to the progress made as a result of the expenditure under Section (a) for preventing cattle disease. A great deal of money has been spent from time to time, and I should like to know what the outlook in Ireland is. I know the Vice-President says further legislation is required if this epizootic disease is to be stamped out. I am not disposed to say that that is unfair, because a diseased bull or cow may affect the whole country to the great loss of the farmers. There are other diseases in regard to which from time to time circulars and leaflets have been issued by the Department. I would like to deal with the question of red water. There is no doubt that in various parts of the country and generally on poor land, there are certain local cures.

§ The CHAIRMAN
I must remind the hon. Gentleman and the Committee that that point was debated at some length yesterday, and it is my duty to prevent a repetition of its discussion to-day.

§ Mr. MOORE
I apologise, but I was not here yesterday.

§ The CHAIRMAN
Then perhaps the hon. and learned Member will read yesterday's OFFICIAL REPORT.

§ Mr. MOORE
I do not know whether the cattle disease known as warbles has been dealt with, but I know that is a disease which has resulted in most serious loss to the hide trade in Ireland. Attention has frequently been called to the injury done to the leather trade and the Irish hide trade by the presence of warbles. The Department issued a leaflet advising the smearing of every beast on its back with a mixture of train oil and sulphur in order to prevent the fly settling on the back of the cattle—

§ The CHAIRMAN
That is a matter of general administration, and it must come in the discussion on the main Vote of the year.

§ Mr. MOORE
This Supplementary Vote is for the investigation of diseases affecting cattle, and if I cannot raise it on this Vote surely I cannot raise it on any other Vote?

§ Mr. RUSSELL
There is nothing in this Supplementary Vote dealing with the warble fly.

§ The CHAIRMAN
The hon. Member himself referred to certain leaflets which have been issued by the Department on this matter showing that it is a question of the ordinary administration paid for out of the ordinary Vote.

§ Mr. MOORE
Then may I put a question about another disease? There is no doubt that Johne's disease has broken out and has caused great mortality on the borders of Kilkenny and Waterford. I know the Department sent down an inspector and nothing has been heard about the matter since. If that disease spreads throughout the country it means ruin to the farmers. I also hear that the disease has broken out in Leitrim. We are voting money to investigate these diseases, and I think we ought to know what decision has been arrived at in regard to it. It is no answer to us to say that a particular disease is not included in this Vote, because what we say is that it ought to be included. I would like to know what is being done in regard to Johne's disease. What has been done by the Committee which has been appointed in the direction of investigating these three important cattle diseases which are doing so much harm to the cattle industry of Ireland?

§ Mr. REMNANT
With regard to this item for agricultural research there does not appear to be any original Estimate. This is a subsequent Grant, which the Department asked for to meet a proportion of the expenses of testing agricultural seeds and diseases of plants. I want to know whether the Government are devoting money towards experiments in tobacco growing?

§ The CHAIRMAN
If the hon. Member will look at the original Estimate he will see that tobacco growing is provided for, and it cannot be raised on this Vote.

§ Mr. REMNANT
Will any of this money be devoted to that purpose?

§ The CHAIRMAN
That question was put and answered yesterday, and I cannot permit hon. Members to repeat matters which have already been dealt with at some length.

§ Viscount HELMSLEY
I wish to ask how far the Board of Agriculture in England and the Board of Agriculture in Ireland co-operate to effect economy in regard to dealing with these diseases?

§ The CHAIRMAN
Apparently the Noble Lord was not here yesterday or he would have known that that question was repeatedly put and answered.

§ Viscount HELMSLEY
I asked some of my hon. Friends, and I was told that this point was not dealt with yesterday.

§ The CHAIRMAN
That was the first question raised by the hon. Member for Wiltshire, and it was dealt with at considerable length.

§ Viscount CASTLEREAGH
This question was very specifically raised before, and we asked under what heads had their been collaboration between the Board of Agriculture in England and in Ireland, and we received no answer. We went on discussing the matter until eleven o'clock, and the right hon. Gentleman has not had an opportunity of answering our questions.

§ The CHAIRMAN
It was because hon. Members were not satisfied that I allowed the question to be put again.

§ Mr. MOORE
With regard to the question of the testing of seeds, the right hon. Gentleman is well aware that the Department tested a flax seed bought abroad, which was sent to the North of Ireland. In spite of that testing, a very heavy loss was sustained, in regard to which there were various law suits. I want to know if that loss was made up to the purchasers, who bought as a result of the Department having passed the seed as being fertile. The seed was bought in Belgium, and there was great disappointment and loss in consequence of the testing done by the Department having absolutely broken down. I want to know what steps have been taken to prevent such a deplorable loss falling again upon the local farmers.

§ The CHAIRMAN
That is a question which ought to be raised on the main Vote.

§ Mr. MOORE
May I point out that this Vote is to meet the proportion of the expenditure on the testing of agricultural 1204 seeds, and this is a proportion of it, and why am I not allowed to raise the whole question?

§ The CHAIRMAN
The hon. Member was raising a question with regard to something which has been done already by the Department, for which money was voted in the original Estimate. He can raise this question again when the main Estimate comes up. The purpose for which this additional money is asked for is the only question which can be discussed now.

§ Viscount CASTLEREAGH
Why is it, when we come down to this House to raise such questions as the disease known as warbles, we are not allowed to do so because the right hon. Gentleman says that not one penny of this money has been spent upon that particular disease. We do not know what diseases are included.

§ The CHAIRMAN
The right hon. Gentleman made a statement at some length yesterday, describing the way in which this money was spent, and I do not think it is right for him to repeat that statement now.

§ Mr. MOORE
With reference to the incident that has passed, the Department made a grievous mistake, and I hope when the money voted by this Estimate reaches the Department they will not make a similar mistake. Surely that is a question which comes within the scope of this Estimate.

§ Mr. SWIFT MacNEILL
Is it in order for an hon. Member to argue with the Chair repeatedly?

§ The CHAIRMAN
I think that is a matter upon which I can look after myself. The hon. Member is entitled to put the matter in the form of a question.

§ Sir F. BANBURY
I was going to ask to what diseases of animals this money is going to be devoted. The right hon. Gentleman has not told us. We know that a certain proportion is going to be devoted to certain diseases of animals, but will the right hon. Gentleman tell us what diseases are going to be dealt with?

§ The CHAIRMAN
I know the hon. Baronet was here most of the time yesterday, and if he looks up the OFFICIAL REPORT he will see that this matter was dealt with.