§ Mr. SWIFT MacNEILLMay I ask the Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture (Ireland) a question, of which I have given him private notice: Whether he has received a resolution from the Donegal Board of Guardians protesting against a portion of the county of Donegal being put under the Cattle Trade (Restrictions) Act, inasmuch as there has been no trace whatever of foot-and-mouth disease in that district, and asking that the restrictions should be removed as speedily as possible, having regard to the great injury done with reference to the cattle fairs held in Ireland?
§ Mr. HUGH BARRIEI desire to ask the Vice-President a question, of which he has received private notice: Whether he can give the House any information with regard to foot-and-mouth disease which may have come under his notice during the Christmas recess; when he proposes to remove the restrictions from the five scheduled counties in the province of 46 Ulster; and whether, in order to promote confidence between the English and Irish Boards and to facilitate one thorough and conclusive inspection satisfactory to all parties, he will welcome the suggestion that the English Board should send over a number of their inspectors to co-operate with their Irish professional colleagues at Irish ports of export?
§ Sir J. LONSDALEI beg to ask the Vice-President a question, of which I have given him private notice: If he can now make any statement as to when the restrictions upon the movement of cattle into and out of the county of Armagh will be removed?
§ Mr. RUSSELLAs the result of a conference held to-day with my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Agriculture, I am able to say that extensive alterations will be made in regard to the restrictions over the whole of Ireland as soon as the Orders can be prepared. I do not desire to make any definite statement until those Orders are ready for issue, because of the difficulties arising in Ireland from statements being made in this House being acted upon by the people before the Orders are actually issued. But I may state, for the satisfaction of hon. Gentlemen from the North of Ireland, that we have agreed that the restrictions shall be removed from the whole of Ulster, with the exception of portions of South Donegal, of the southern division of Fermanagh—I mean the Parliamentary Division—and of Mid-Armagh. With the exception of those three areas, the restrictions will be withdrawn from the whole province of Ulster. My right hon. Friend has already announced that instructions will be issued at once as soon as the Orders are prepared, but I am able to announce, with regard to Munster and Connaught, that arrangements are being made. I prefer not to make any definite statement until the Orders are ready.
§ Mr. W. O'BRIENHow soon may we have some statement, I hope a final statement, as to the Regulations?
§ Mr. RUSSELLI hope on Thursday.
§ Mr. T. M. HEALYHow many weeks have elapsed since there was a case of cattle disease anywhere in the North of Ireland?
§ Mr. RUSSELLThere have been cases of suspicion, but the latest confirmed cases were three weeks ago.
§ Mr. T. M. HEALYHave not the English Department sent over inspectors who have agreed that these were mere cases of suspicion, and not of actual disease?
§ Mr. RUSSELLNo, Sir. No English inspectors have visited Ireland on this business. Communications have been made by telegraph, and we have been quite willing to receive their advice. We have been sending over the heads and tongues to the English laboratory; even if English inspectors had come across they would have seen no more. Only last week we invited the attendance of English officials in the county of Armagh, where great difficulties had arisen, but the difficulties have been surmounted and the views of the Irish officials have been accepted, and that has enabled us to remove the restrictions from a great part of Armagh. I beg the House to understand there is no friction of any kind between the two Departments.
§ Mr. SWIFT MacNEILLHow is it that a part of South Donegal is alone excepted from the removal of the restrictions, having regard to (the fact, which I think is admitted, that in that Division there is no trace whatever of foot-and-mouth disease, direct or indirect? Will the right hon. Gentleman undertake that the restrictions shall be removed in a short time?
§ Mr. RUSSELLMy hon. Friend is wrong. There was a cargo of ninety-three animals—eighty-three from Ballyshannon and ten from Enniskillen—taken to Derry and slaughtered there. Three heads were forwarded to Glasgow and traces of foot-and-mouth disease were found. That is the reason why South Donegal has been excepted from the removal of the restrictions. I can assure my hon. Friend that these cases are being anxiously watched every day; we do not desire to keep on these restrictions, which involve loss and great trouble to the people of Ireland, one moment longer than is really necessary, but as soon as every investigation has been made that it is possible to make, the restrictions will be removed.
§ Sir JOHN LONSDALEArising out of the reference to the restrictions in county Armagh, can the right hon. Gentleman say whether the inspectors of the Department have found a single case of foot-and-mouth disease in that county?
§ Mr. RUSSELLThe Department has had ten inspectors, including Professor 48 Mettam and one of has assistants, in Mid-Armagh for the last ten or twelve days. The hon. Baronet asks whether a single case of foot-and-mouth disease has been traced. Experiments by inoculation have been made and they are not yet complete. We await the report of three or four inspectors. It is not necessary that cases of foot-and-mouth disease should actually exist, but the suspicion of disease renders it necessary to make inquiries, and this must be taken into account. I hope we-shall be able, very soon, to clear the remainder of Armagh.
§ Mr. BARRIEMay I press for a reply to the latter part of my question as to English inspectors coming over to Ireland?
§ Mr. RUSSELLI have told the House that there is at this moment no centre of disease in Ireland. There is no case of foot-and-mouth disease, and why therefore, should I bring over English inspectors?
§ Mr. BARRIETo restore confidence.
§ Mr. RUSSELLI am sorry my hon. Friend, who is a member of the Council of the Department of Agriculture, should be a party to circulating the view that the Departmental officials have not the confidence of the people of Ireland. I do not believe that view is held extensively in Ireland.
Captain CRAIGMay I ask the President of the Board of Agriculture whether he is aware of the strong opposition among Irish cattle dealers to the proposed detention of cattle at both the port of export of Ireland and the port of import in England or Scotland, and whether before issuing any orders on the subject he will receive representations from those interested, and whether in order to promote confidence in English and Irish Boards, and to facilitate one thorough and conclusive inspection satisfactory to all parties, he will welcome the suggestion that the English Board should send over a number of those inspectors to co-operate with their Irish professional colleagues at Irish ports of export?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANI have not received notice of that question, and so perhaps the hon: Gentleman will forgive me if I do not give him a full answer, but I can tell him that when the final arrangements are made for restoring the normal trade between 49 Ireland and England, we believe it is necessary there should be inspection on this side after the animals have completed the voyage across. I am afraid I cannot depart from that arrangement, but it will be carried through without any undue delay on this side.
§ Mr. T. M. HEALYWill the right hon. Gentleman institute an inquiry by means of an independent Royal Commission or Departmental Committee, so that the general public may have some chance of expressing their views on this subject, in view of the extraordinary nature of the proceeding.
§ Mr. RUNCIMANI am afraid I cannot admit that this is an extraordinary proceeding. It is a procedure carried out with regard to other diseases in every branch of the animal trade. I am charged with the duty of carrying out the Regulations under the Animals Diseases Act. This is conceived to be one of the necessary precautions against the importation of disease.
§ Mr. T. M. HEALYWhat steps are being taken to prevent French hay being imported from a country in which there are hundreds of these cases of disease? What steps have been taken to prevent foreign infection thus coming in?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANI can satisfy the hon. and learned Gentleman on that point. We do not admit French hay.
§ Mr. T. M. HEALYIt comes in in another form—as packing.
§ Mr. FALCONERMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman, before he makes the final Order which he proposes to make, if he will take steps to ascertain the practically unanimous opinion of farmers in Scotland against detention at the port of landing, and whether he is aware that at the present moment a considerable number of farmers have large numbers of cattle detained in Ireland because it is impossible to get them across on account of the want of shipping and lairage accommodation under the existing restrictions?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANWith regard to the existing Regulations, I hope that they may 50 be modified in the immediate future. With regard to the detention to which the hon. Gentleman refers, it will continue no longer than is necessary—first, for inspection of the animals to see that they are free from disease, and, secondly, for resting, watering, and feeding them before proceedings on a railway journey.
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§ Mr. RUNCIMANI think all that is necessary in regard to inspection, feeding, and watering before proceeding on a railway journey will be probably twelve hours from the time of the arrival of the animals in port until they leave the port again.
§ Mr. KILBRIDEBefore the right hon. Gentleman brings that Order into force will he see that proper, lairage accommodation is provided on this side, otherwise he will seriously hamper the trade, as at present there is not proper accommodation?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANLairage accommodation is being provided rapidly, both by shipping companies and railway companies, at both English and Scottish ports. I hope there will be no congestion on this side when the animals come through under the new Order.
§ Mr. CRUMLEYIs it not a fact that no disease has been found in Fermanagh since 11th October; and is the port of Derry to-be opened to-day?
§ Mr. RUSSELLI think I guarded myself sufficiently on that point. The port of Derry cannot be opened until the Order is prepared and issued. I have telegraphed to Dublin ordering the Order to be prepared and issued at the earliest possible moment. I hope that no steps will be taken by anybody in Derry, in consequence of the discussion here to-day, to attempt to ship animals, because they will be stopped for a certainty.
§ Mr. CRUMLEYWhat about Fermanagh?
§ Mr. RUSSELLI have liberated one-half of Fermanagh—South Fermanagh, The other half will be liberated at the earliest possible moment.