HC Deb 20 December 1912 vol 45 cc1942-5
Mr. WILLIAM REDMOND

I desire to take this opportunity of asking the Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture (Ireland) if he can explain a little more fully than he was able to in reply to a question I put to him the exact position of the experiments in Ireland in connection with the growing of tobacco. The other day I put a question to the right hon. Gentleman as to the arrangements which had been made under the scheme. He gave me a full answer, but I think he might now amplify it and give us some further details. I understand the Development Commissioners have expressed themselves as willing to vote a sum of £70,000, to be spread over ten years, for the experiment of growing tobacco in Ireland. One-half of that has already been allocated, but I understand the other half has not been allocated because a second experimenter has not been forthcoming. The right hon. Gentleman said that so far Sir Nugent Everard, who is deeply interested in this matter, is the only experimenter. Is it not possible to take advantage of the offer of the Development Commissioners in this matter by getting another experimenter to carry out the second experiment? I ask the right hon. Gentleman to consider that matter. There is another point into which I do not wish to go, be-because my hon. Friend the Member for South Wexford (Mr. Ffrench) intends to do so—that is the particular position of the pioneer growers of tobacco in the south of Wexford. I can only say that the Wexford growers were some of the first in Ireland, and their position is such that it deserves consideration. I would ask the right hon. Gentleman, when my hon. Friend has spoken for the Wexford growers, to let us know exactly the position of this promising industry in Ireland.

Mr. FFRENCH

I desire to say a word on the new scheme of tobacco growing, as some of my Constituents were among the first people in Ireland to attempt to reintroduce tobacco growing into that country. They have produced splendid crops of tobacco, and have cured them and disposed of them satisfactorily. Up to the present they have been cultivating twelve acres, and under the new scheme they have been allotted twenty-five acres, but somehow difficulties seem to blockthe way under the new arrangement. The experimenter is himself allowed £25 an acre as a bonus under the new scheme for cultivating an area of not more than 150 acres. Those 150 acres include the Wexford growers. The present scheme allows them twenty-five acres, but the experimenter proposes to allow them £15 out of the £25 bonus on only twelve acres, together with the market value of the leaf. Under this scheme the experimenter is to provide drying houses, but the Wexford growers have drying houses already provided by the Department of Agriculture, and I understand that the growers have provided other means of drying the tobacco. I have no doubt whatever that they will be able to deal with the crops grown on the twenty-five acres. They consider that they are entitled, taking all the circumstances into account, to £15 per acre on the full twenty-five acres. The Wexford growers are nearly all small farmers, and they ought to be encouraged, because this class of farmers are the only people who could make tobacco growing a success in Ireland. I appeal to the right hon. Gentleman to see that the Wexford growers get fair play under the new scheme.

Mr. T. W. RUSSELL (Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture, Ireland)

I explained in answer to a question the other day how matters stood in regard to this question. The Treasury first of all gave a Grant of £6,000 a year for five years. Sir Nugent Everard, the Wexford growers, and a colony in county Louth, carried on the industry under that scheme. It will come to an end next year. The object was to find out whether tobacco could be grown on a commercial basis in that country, and not being certain that the experiment had been fully tried, the Chancellor of the Exchequer refused to continue the Grant and sent us to a body called the Development Commissioners. The Development Commissioners expressed their willingness to give a Grant of £70,000, to be spread over a period of ten years, but they attached this condition to the Grant, that there should be two experimentors, one in the Midlands and the other, if possible, in the South of Ireland. There is no difficulty about the first experimenter. Sir Nugent Everard has been carrying on this work more or less successfully for some time, and naturally the Department requested him to take part in this experiment. He complied. The result is that the agreement between Sir Nugent Everard and the Department is now ready for signature. What stands in the way is the position taken up by the Wexford growers, whom the hon. Member for South Wexford (Mr. Ffrench) represents. What the Treasury gave was £50 an acre, but we are giving £25 an acre. We are not giving it to the individual growers, but to the experimenter, who has to arrange the whole proceeding, and meet whatever expense is connected with it. The Wexford growers are not satisfied with Sir Nugent Everard's terms of £10 an acre. The Department thought that was too little, and to put it in ordinary-language, we screwed him up to £15 an acre. Beyond that he is not inclined to go. The Wexford growers had twelve acres last time and they have twenty-five acres now. Sir Nugent Everard is willing to give £15 for twelve acres, but refuses to give it on the twenty-five acres. That is the position between the Wexford growers and Sir Nugent Everard at the present time.

Mr. FFRENCH

Will Sir Nugent Everard give £10 per acre on the remainder?

Mr. RUSSELL

I do not think there would be any difficulty about that. What he objects to is giving £15 on the twenty-five acres. Inquiries are now being made. The hon. Member communicated with me the other day, and sent me what looked very much like an ultimatum from the Wexford growers. That has been sent on to Sir Nugent Everard, and correspondence is now proceeding between the Department and Sir Nugent Everard. I think that in a few days we shall get to business on that matter. As to the second experimenter, I had the misfortune to refer to fact in the House the other day that £.35,000 was going begging, looking for a man to take charge of it in the South of Ireland. I have received since then numerous offers of assistance. There are plenty of men in the South of Ireland willing to take charge of the £35,000, but I have not yet met the man who has the necessary qualification, the necessary capital, and the necessary knowledge to take it up, and until the Department is certain that a second experimentor and re-handler can be got from the South of Ireland we must hold that £35,000. We shall be very glad if we can get the proper medium for carrying the matter through.

Mr. W. REDMOND

I am sure the right hon. Gentleman is ready to assure us that the Department bear in mind the advisability of having the second scheme carried out and that he is keeping in view the fact that there are a great many experienced tobacco growers in the South of Ireland.

Mr. RUSSELL

Of course, I am as anxious to get the £35,000 out of the Development Commissioners as any hon. Member there, but there is a responsibility placed upon me, and we must be careful what we do when we are dealing with public money.

Mr. W. REDMOND

I quite agree with every word you say.