§ 5. Mr. LUNDONasked the right hon. Gentleman if he is now in a position to make a statement regarding the exportation of store cattle as well as fat cattle from Ireland, and especially from the provinces of Munster and Connaught?
§ 12. Mr. HUGH BARRIEasked the right hon. Gentleman whether he is now in a position to announce further modifications of the restrictions regulating the importation of Irish cattle to England and Scotland?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANI had hoped to have been able to-day to announce some further modification of the existing restrictions, but on Thursday last three heads were found at the city abattoirs-at Glasgow by the meat inspectors of the local authority in which the lesions characteristic of foot-and-mouth disease were present. The lesions were healed, and were three or four weeks old. Inquiries were immediately instituted, and it would appear, so far as we can say at present, that the heads were those of animals which had been slaughtered in Londonderry. The Irish Department are endeavouring by every means in their power to ascertain from whence the animals came, and as a precautionary and temporary measure a new area will be defined by the Irish Department, out of which the movement of animals will not be permitted until the inquiries are complete. But no suspicion now attaches to large districts in Ireland, and I propose to allow the imports of store cattle from those districts to be resumed on Wednesday next, subject, of course, to the detention of the cattle at the place of landing for a period of four days and their isolation and supervision at the farms to which they are moved for a further period of twenty-one days. Some curtailment of the existing scheduled area in Ireland will at the same time be made. The landing of animals for slaughter which are brought from the non-scheduled districts will continue as at present.
§ Mr. FIELDHave any steps been taken to confirm, or otherwise, the report he has received in respect to these heads?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANYes, Sir; we have been very careful to have the heads carefully examined. We are not prepared to depend purely on local opinion in that matter. I am afraid the statement I issued this morning is the result of a scientific inquiry.
§ Mr. CRUMLEYHas the inspector seen the carcases of these animals to which these heads belonged, and, if so, does the disease appear in the carcases, for these heads may probably come from France?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANNo, Sir; I am afraid the information we have at present leads us to believe that they came from Londonderry. As I said, I can only give the information we have at present with reserve. The heads came over separated from the carcases as meat; they did not come over on live animals.
§ Mr. WILLIAM O'BRIENHas any Irish Cattle Trade Association intimated to the right hon. Gentleman that there would be the smallest use in the so-called concessions he has made to-day as to store cattle?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANThey have had no chance of communicating with me, as I have only made a communication to the House a few moments ago. I have no doubt that they will certainly value highly the advantage which will come to their trade through being allowed to import store cattle in this country.
§ Mr. HORNERHas the right hon. Gentleman traced any single case of disease to county Tyrone?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANThat question should be addressed to the Vice-President.
§ Mr. BARRIEWhat is the new area?
§ Mr. T. W. RUSSELL (Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture, Ireland)I think it is accurate to say that after the Birkenhead inquiry, diseased cattle were traced to two places, one in Mid-Armagh and the other in South Tyrone. I wish to say, after conference with my right hon. Friend, I propose to go over the whole of the area scheduled afresh, to examine it critically and see whether I can give relief with safety. It will be done immediately.
§ Mr. HORNERWhat I want to know is whether any definite case has been traced to county Tyrone or not. Is it a fact that it was reported on Thursday evening to the Department in Dublin that there was a suspected case of foot-and-mouth disease at Greystones in the Castle Caul-field police district, that two inspectors for the Department arrived by motor-car and examined the suspected animal?
§ Mr. SPEAKERIf the hon. Member wishes an answer to a question full of details like that, he must give notice.
§ Mr. LARDNERAm I to understand that the standstill orders which are at present in force in part of county Monaghan will be reduced at least to movement out. wards?
§ Mr. RUSSELLI have already made up my mind, so far as regards most of the area that has been scheduled, that the standstill orders may be relaxed, and that movement into and within the area may be permitted, but hon. Members must give me a few hours, at all events, to look over it critically, and see what can safely be done.
§ 6. Mr. HARRY LAWSONasked the President of the Board of Agriculture whether he is aware that peculiar hardship is inflicted upon the Jewish community in London by the prohibition against Irish cattle at Deptford and Birkenhead; and what modifications in the Order of his Department will be made before Christmas?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANAn Order was issued on Wednesday last which permits of the landing of Irish cattle for slaughter both at Deptford and Birkenhead, if they are not brought from the district out of which movement is for the time being prohibited by the Irish Department. This Order will, I hope, remove any possibility of the occurrence of the special hardship to which the hon. Member refers.
10. Major HOPEasked if arrangements have been completed for landing Irish store cattle at Ayr and Greenock under quarantine restrictions, so that they may be, landed at those ports directly it is possible to again permit them to be landed at Dundee and authorised English ports?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANArrangements have been made which will enable Irish store cattle to be landed at Ayr, but it will be some little time before the necessary works are completed. The possibility of providing accommodation at Greenock is still under discussion with the Glasgow and South-Western Railway Company.
§ Mr. RUNCIMANI cannot give a definite date, but I am afraid it will not be before Christmas. It is being pushed on as rapidly as possible by the Ayr Shipping Company and the other authorities concerned.
§ 11. Mr. PATRICK WHITEasked the President of the Board of Agriculture whether his attention has been called to an opinion from Mr. R. Ebbit, M.R.C.V.S., Oldcastle, county Meath, in which he refers to a form of non-contagious foot-and-mouth disease called my-coticstomatitis; and whether he has any official information as to its existence in Great Britain and Ireland?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANMy attention had not previously been called to the opinion expressed by Mr. Ebbit. It is well known that the disease known as stomatitis (inflammation of the mouth) occurs among 1072 cattle in Great Britain, and a number of cases have been found recently among cattle imported from Ireland. I must refer the hon. Member to my right hon. Friend the vice-President for information as to its prevalence in that country. The disease is quite distinct from foot-and-mouth disease.
§ 13. Mr. HUGH BARRIEasked whether, once conditions return to normal, the importation of Irish cattle to England and Scotland will be permitted without restriction at landing ports as formerly?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANI am afraid that I cannot, in any case, contemplate a return to the conditions existing prior to the discovery of foot-and-mouth disease in the animals brought from Swords in June last, and I am satisfied that it will be in the interests of all concerned that for the future animals brought from Ireland shall be landed at properly equipped landing places, where they can be rested, fed, watered, and closely inspected before they are moved inland. This will take some few hours. The arrangement will be of a permanent character, and such an arrangement will not only afford the officers of the Board a good opportunity of detecting any cases of disease, either amongst cattle, sheep, or swine, but will also lead to a substantial improvement in the condition in which they arrive at their destination, of which serious complaint has been made for many years past.
§ Mr. BARRIEDoes this not imply a direct vote of censure on the Irish Department?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANOh, no, not the very least. It is necessary that we should take care, when animals are landed in this country, that they should be carefully inspected, and rested and watered before being sent on by train.
Mr. CATHCART WASONWill it not be possible to establish in Ireland stations where the cattle might rest for some time and be examined, instead of having the examination done on this side?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANArrangements, which will be made by the Irish Department, provide for the animals to be rested before they go on board ship for a short time.
§ Mr. RUNCIMANI hope it will be done quite safely in twelve hours. At all events, we are fitting it in conveniently with the conditions of the trade.
§ Mr. BARRIEHas the right hon. Gentleman the concurrence of the Irish Department?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANCertainly. The Irish Department and my Department are working together in complete harmony.
§ Captain MURRAYHave the authorities been informed that these arrangements will be of a permanent character?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANThose who have control of the trade know that these arrangements will be of a permanent character, and I have told many of them, personally, myself.
§ 15. Mr. PATRICK WHITEasked the President of the Board of Agriculture when he proposes to open British ports to cattle from county Meath?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANI cannot as yet make any announcement as to the date when shipments of animals from Meath can be allowed to be resumed. Everything depends upon the result of the efforts which are being made to locate any unreported cases of disease in the scheduled area, as to the existence of which there us been cause for suspicion. But I hope that the suspension of the trade, at any rate in fat stock for slaughter, may not be of long duration.
§ 16. Mr. MULDOONasked the President of the Board of Agriculture whether he has read and considered the opinion of Sir John McFadyean on foot-and-mouth disease to which his attention has been called?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANThe passage to which the hon. Member called my attention occurs in a report which was published in the "Journal of Comparative Pathology" in the year 1901. The question at issue cannot very conveniently be discussed in the course of a reply to a Parliamentary question, but I may point out that the immediate context to the passage to which the hon. Member has referred me contains a warning that even in doubtful cases it is wise to diagnose the affection provisionally as foot-and-mouth disease, and to take the usual precautions against the spread of infection. The decision of the veterinary officers of the Board in the particular cases presented to them for 1074 diagnosis has been arrived at after the closest scrutiny of the lesions present, and I see no reason to doubt the correctness of their conclusions.
§ Mr. GINNELLIs it not in connection with the two unconfirmed cases, in which no other animals contracted the disease, that he has scheduled Meath and West Meath?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANNo, I cannot call them unconfirmed cases. They are confirmed as fully as they can be by the scientific men who act as my expert advisers.
§ Mr. GINNELLIs it not a fact that no other beast has contracted the disease?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANOf this herd I think up to the present none have shown signs of the disease, but that is by no means conclusive proof that precautions must not be taken.
§ Mr. MULDOONMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether Sir John McFadyean has expressed the opinion that although the symptoms presented by a single animal may resemble those of the disease in question, the case may be set down as not foot-and-mouth disease when, in spite of abundant opportunities for infection, it does not spread to other cattle or to sheep?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThat is in the nature of a speech. The hon. Member should give notice of the question.
§ 17. Mr. C. BATHURSTasked the President of the Board of Agriculture whether there have been any more outbreaks of foot-and-mouth disease during the last four days either in Great Britain or Ireland; and whether lie has made or proposes to make any further alterations in the restrictions in operation last week?
§ Mr. RUNCIMANNo outbreaks of foot-and-mouth disease have been reported to the Board, either in Great Britain or in Ireland, during the last few days. The restrictions in Kent are being gradually withdrawn in accordance with the Board's usual practice in such cases. As regards those in force with regard to the trade between the two countries, perhaps the hon. Member will allow me to refer him to the answer which I have just given to the hon. Member for East Limerick.
§ Mr. GINNELLI beg to ask the Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture, Ireland, a question of which I have 1075 given him private notice — namely, Whether he is in a position to announce a reduction of the scheduled area in Westmeath so as to allow free movement of animals in the parishes of Streete, Coole, Castlepollard, Finea, and Castletown, most of which lie seventeen miles from Mullin-gar, where the latest case of disease occurred thirty-nine days ago?
§ Mr. RUSSELLIf the hon. Gentleman will raise the question to-night on the Adjournment or to-morrow, I will give an -answer.
§ Mr. MITCHELL-THOMSONAre we to understand the whole question of these scheduled areas is receiving consideration from the Department at the present moment?
§ Mr. RUSSELLYes.
§ Mr. MITCHELL-THOMSONWith a view to revision?