§ 28. Sir WALTER NUGENTasked the Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture (Ireland) when the last case of foot-and-mouth disease occurred in Ireland; whether he is now prepared to make a statement as to the removal of restrictions from or contraction of the restricted area in the county of Westmeath; and if, in the opinion of the experts of his Department, Ireland is now entirely free from all trace of disease?
§ Mr. RUSSELLThis matter is now under the consideration of the Department, and a proposal has been submitted to the Board of Agriculture for their concurrence.
§ 30. Mr. J. P. FARRELLasked the Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture (Ireland) whether, having regard to the fact that the last outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease at Mullingar occurred on 7th November, and that twenty-eight days have now elapsed since that case was discovered and no further case has occurred, 2469 he will now issue an Order restricting the operations of the Westmeath and District Removal of Animals Order to seven miles, so as to entirely clear county Longford, in which there has been no outbreak at all from that disease, and allow fairs to be held freely in all parts of that county?
§ Mr. RUSSELLI beg to refer the hon. Member to the answer given to-day in my reply to the hon. Member for South Westmeath.
§ Mr. FARRELLIs the right hon. Gentleman aware of the fact that the fair in connection with which this question is asked is to be held on the 16th, and there is no time to make other arrangements, and does he not see his way to alter his mind?
§ Mr. RUSSELLThe only answer I can give to the hon. Member is that a good many things have happened since he asked his question. The Department has to proceed with extreme caution in this matter, and I should have thought I would have had the assistance of the hon. Gentleman.
§ Mr. FARRELLMay I take it that the right hon. Gentleman is not going to remove the embargo on this district?
§ Mr. RUSSELLNo, the hon. Member must take what I say in reply to the hon. Member for South Westmeath.
§ 31. Mr. PATRICK WHITEasked the Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture (Ireland) whether complaints have been made that preferential treatment with regard to available quarantine space in Great Britain has been received by large consignors of cattle from Ireland; whether, having regard to the fact that his Department is the only authority that can secure fair play to small shippers by withholding licences for shipment and regulating their issue in such a way that every applicant will have his case considered, and, if at any time refused, his next application will have priority over those previously granted; and whether, in all cases, the tenant fanners who feed cattle will receive special consideration?
§ Mr. RUSSELLI am having inquiries made upon this subject. Perhaps the hon. Member will repeat his question on Tuesday next.
§ Mr. FIELDI beg to ask the Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture 2470 (Ireland) a question of which I have given him private notice: Whether he can state the circumstances regarding the suspected cases of foot-and-mouth disease reported to have occurred at Dublin and Newry?
§ Mr. RUSSELLThere are three cases to which I wish to refer in answer to my hon. Friend. First, there is the case of an animal, one of a large cargo which it was proposed to ship to Dundee. One animal was found by the inspector of the Department to be suffering from some ailment, and was challenged and not allowed to go on board. It was examined, and three of our principal inspectors saw the animal. The lesion in the tongue was an old lesion, said by the chief veterinary inspector of the Board of Agriculture in England to be a month or two old. Our three inspectors in Dublin were unable to pronounce it foot-and-mouth disease, and they were confirmed in their action by the fact that the animal had been for eight months in a field near Kells, in the county of Meath, with eighty other animals, which were also on board the ship, and none of them had ever shown the slightest symptoms of disease. They belong to a Scotchman who has an eleven months' taking, and they had been very carefully watched. The three inspectors, each of them a most competent man, declined to pronounce it foot-and-mouth disease, and the Secretary called upon to decide whether the cargo should be stopped or not, held that on these two grounds he was warranted in dispatching the cargo to Dundee, which he did. I am glad to say, although they have been a week there, we have received no intelligence of anything wrong there. The second was a case almost similar, only the lesions were pronounced to be three weeks old. That animal was from near Dunshaughlin, in the county of Meath. The inspectors were unable to pronounce it foot-and-mouth disease, and Professor Wettam, president of the Royal Veterinary Society for the United Kingdom, an authority who will not be questioned by anyone in this House or in the country, said that the lesions were imperceptible from those of foot-and-mouth disease, but the infection had not been conveyed by either of them, although they had been alongside other cattle. It appeared to him to be a case of what the Germans call pseudo-foot-and-mouth disease, that is foot-and-mouth disease that is not infectious. We held that cargo up and did not allow it to proceed. It is now at South. 2471 Wall, Dublin, and nothing has happened to any animal. These are the two Dublin cases which have caused us very great anxiety. I should also add that with regard to these cases I dispatched officers on Sunday last to Kells and Dunshaughlin and for many miles all round those places to examine the animals in the neighbourhood, and we could find no trace of the disease at all. As regards the Birkenhead outbreak, that, I regret to say, is a much more certain and serious case. There can be no doubt that an animal shipped from Newry developed foot-and-mouth disease. I have seen our own inspector in town today. He has seen the tongue, and he admits it is foot-and-mouth disease, and I am sorry to add that other animals in that cargo have developed the same disease, so that is a very serious matter. I think we did absolutely right with regard to the two others, that we were justified in dispatching the one cargo to Dundee and in holding up the other; but the case of Birkenhead is certainly a most serious thing, which will require very great attention on the part of the Department to find out where the animals came from and to deal with the district. That we are now doing.
Mr. W. REDMONDMay I ask whether information has reached the right hon. Gentleman to the effect that a large number of cattle and pigs are now held up at the port of Waterford; that these came from a district in the country where there is no outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease, and whether he will have them inspected and allow them to proceed to their destination?
§ Mr. RUSSELLCattle of all kinds are being held up in every quarter. The condition is extremely serious, and I hope my hon. Friend will see that it is necessary, and I have no power to alter the circumstances unless it can be proved to the Board of Agriculture that the outbreak is local, and not general.
Mr. W. REDMONDWill the right hon. Gentleman represent to the Minister of Agriculture that there is a difference between holding up cattle from an infected area and holding up cattle from a neighbourhood in which there has been no outbreak of disease for many years?
§ Mr. RUSSELLI have been representing that for a long time.
§ Mr. C. BATHURSTCan the right hon. Gentleman say how, in the first case, to which he referred—the case where the animals were clearly suffering from foot-and-mouth disease, three or four weeks ago, they entirely escaped detection, although the disease is so easily diagnosed; and can he say also why the English Board of Agriculture do not recognise the existence of non-infectious foot-and-mouth disease?
§ Mr. RUSSELLI am bound to follow the advice of the inspectors of my Department, and they are of opinion that this was not a true case of foot-and-mouth disease. As to why the cases were undetected while the animals were in Meath, I do not know whether the hon. Member understands the enormous task which the Board is called upon to perform. We have had an enormous number of cattle to deal with and to trace, as I am sure the hon. Gentleman will realise, and my point is that on these two farms, neither then nor since, nor now, could we find any trace of disease.
§ Mr. CRUMLEYIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that 36,000 pigs are lying beside the docks in Dublin waiting for shipment; and that there are 5,000 more in different ports: Dundalk, Waterford, Belfast, and Derry. Will these animals be allowed to be shipped for slaughter at Birkenhead or Liverpool, as the case may be, and will the right hon. Gentleman give instructions to his officers at Dublin to permit these pigs to be shipped to their destination?
§ Mr. RUSSELLI am aware of all the hon. Member has said and a good deal more. But a moment's consideration will show him that I have no power to do as he wishes. Even if they were shipped from the ports he mentions, there is the question of landing them at the English ports. That is the real difficulty, and over it I have no power.
§ Mr. LOUGHCan the right hon. Gentleman say where the animals undoubtedly infected which were shipped from Newry came from?
§ Mr. RUSSELLWe are carrying out investigations as to that at this moment. Our inspectors are busy making inquiries and I hope before night closes they will have been able to trace the fifteen animals.
§ Mr. KILBRIDEMay I ask whether there is any instance, either in England 2473 or in Ireland, or in any Continental country, where animals suffering from true foot-and-mouth disease have not conveyed the contagion to other animals on the same farm or in their immediate vicinity?
§ Mr. RUSSELLMy opinion on that subject is not worth anything. But I have made strict inquiry from the veterinary officers of the Board and they maintain it is almost impossible for an animal sniveling from foot-and-mouth disease to be with eighty others in a field and not convey the disease to any of them.