HC Deb 05 December 1912 vol 44 cc2478-9
48. Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWEN

asked the Prime Minister if his attention has been called to the last paragraph in the White Paper issued last week on the distribution of the property of the Church in Wales under the terms of the Established Church (Wales) Bill, in which it is stated that the present beneficiaries will retain their intersets in this property during their tenure of office in the Church in Wales; it has been estimated to be the equivalent of £62,000 a year in perpetuity; whether he can state who is responsible for this estimate; and whether it implies that the existing beneficiaries are not to be permitted to have the use of the money during the remainder of their lives?

The SECRETARY of STATE for the HOME DEPARTMENT (Mr. McKenna)

The Prime Minister has asked to reply to this question. The estimate which I gave on the First Reading of the Bill is an actuarial one made by a Treasury official. The answer to the last part of the question is in the negative.

Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWEN

May I ask if the existing incumbents are to be allowed to use up all the money during the remainder of the time they are in office; how can there still be £62,000 endowment in perpetuity?

Mr. McKENNA

It is only an actuarial estimate of the value of the life interest.

Mr. KING

Was not this estimate made and given to the House again and again months ago, and has it ever been questioned before to-day?

Mr. McKENNA

My hon. Friend is quite right.

Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWEN

If it is only an actuarial estimate, why is it stated to be £62,000 in perpetuity?

Mr. McKENNA

It is estimated to be equivalent to £62,000 a year in perpetuity.

Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWEN

What is the real value?

Mr. KING

Will the right hon. Gentleman send a Treasury expert to explain?

66. Mr. HOARE

asked what is the number of livings in the presentation of the Crown affected by the Established Church (Wales) Bill?

Mr. McKENNA

The number of Crown livings in Wales and Monmouthshire to which the Prime Minister presents in full right is six; the number to which he presents alternately with the bishop is ten. The number of livings in Wales and Monmouthshire in the presentation of the Lord Chancellor is sixty-seven.