HC Deb 05 August 1912 vol 41 cc2629-31
The CHAIRMAN of WAYS and MEANS (Mr. Whitley)

I beg to move, "That it is expedient that a Joint Committee of Lords and Commons be appointed to consider and report whether any, and, if any, what restrictions should be imposed on gas authorities with respect to the purchase and manufacture of the residual products resulting from the manufacture of gas by other gas authorities, or of other chemicals.

"That a Message be sent to the Lords to communicate this Resolution, and desire their concurrence."

This Motion, which stands on the Paper in my name, requires, I think, a word or two of explanation. It deals with a subject which has been a matter of contest on a number of private Bills during this Session, and that contest to all appearance is likely to be renewed in the next and future Sessions. The Chairman of Committees in the other House, and I, have come together, and we have come to the conclusion that it would be very greatly in the interest of both parties and a great saving of expense if the matter was considered by a Joint Committee instead of having the subject a matter of contest on individual Bills, and that is the reason why the proposal is made to this House that a Joint Committee should be set up before which the contending parties could put forward their case and that we may have a report from that Joint Committee for the guidance of Private Bill Committees. That is why I move this Motion.

Mr. JOYCE

If such a Committee were set up, would they have power to recommend other legislation to prevent municipal authorities, who at present under Acts of Parliament have power to carry on the work mentioned from doing so. Would this operate against them in anyway?

The CHAIRMAN of WAYS and MEANS

It is a matter of some doubt how far those existing powers of gas authorities do go, and that is how the question has arisen. Some Private Bill Committees during this Session have inserted Clauses of a retrospective character placing restrictions upon the purchase of the residuals by gas authorities, and therefore it is necessary that this Committee should inquire into the whole question.

Mr. BOOTH

May I ask whether it is intended that Members of this Joint Committee should be nominated by the Government, the Selection Committee, or by the Chairman of Ways and Means?

The CHAIRMAN of WAYS and MEANS

The Motion following this, if it is agreed to by this House, would of course be made by the Chairman of Ways and Means.

Mr. JOYCE

Is the object of this Motion to produce uniformity amongst all classes that produce gas, whether companies or municipal corporations?

The CHAIRMAN of WAYS and MEANS

That is so.

Mr. COTTON

I should like to ask the right hon. Gentleman, supposing those rules were laid down by the suggested Committee, would they apply to local authorities as well as companies?

The CHAIRMAN of WAYS and MEANS

The words "gas authorities" include both companies and local authorities that have statutory powers.

Mr. MITCHELL-THOMSON

Is it suggested the Joint Committee should take evidence?

The CHAIRMAN of WAYS and MEANS

Yes; it is suggested both parties to the contest should appear before the Joint Committee by counsel if they desire.

Mr. JOYCE

Whatever way the Committee reports I take it legislation would be necessary before any change was made?

The CHAIRMAN of WAYS and MEANS

It would mean that in all probability the practice of Private Bill Committees would follow the recommendation of the Joint Committee.

Mr. JOYCE

And come up for revision in this House?

The CHAIRMAN of WAYS and MEANS

Yes.

Question put, and agreed to.

Ordered, That a Message be sent to the Lords to communicate this Resolution, and desire their concurrence.—[The Chairman of Ways and Means.]

Provisional Order Bills [Lords] (Standing Orders applicable thereto complied with),—Mr. SPEAKER laid upon the Table Report from one of the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills, That, in the case of the following Bill, brought from the Lords, and referred on the First Reading thereof, the Standing Orders which are applicable thereto have been complied with, namely:—

Electric Lighting Provisional Order (No. 4) Bill [Lords].

Ordered, That the Bill be read a second time To-morrow.

Clyde Valley Electrical Power Order Confirmation Bill [Lords],

Read the third time, and passed, without Amendment.

Gas Orders Confirmation (No. 1) Bill [Lords] (by Order),

Third Reading deferred till To-morrow.