HC Deb 26 October 1911 vol 30 cc273-8
Captain CRAIG

asked the Chief Secretary whether his attention had been drawn to the fact that Statute C of the University College, Dublin, which extinguished the lectureships in Spanish and Italian that had been originally created at that college and substituted therefor a joint lectureship in these subjects, purported to have been made by the Dublin Commissioners after they had taken into consideration the representations of the governing body of the college; when were those representations made, and what was the nature of them; and would he direct the production of the minutes of the meeting of the governing body at which those alleged representations were agreed to be sent forward?

Mr. BIRRELL

The Statute in question is in the ordinary form, and recites that the Commissioners, as required by Statute, had taken into consideration the representations of the governing body and of all other persons interested. The Commissioners informed me in reply to a question on the same subject in August last that the only minute of the governing body of which they were aware was one expressing confidence in Miss Degani's competence to discharge all the duties of her office. I have no power to direct the production of the minutes of the governing body.

Captain CRAIG

Has the right hon. Gentleman no power in the matter?

Mr. BIRRELL

No. The Commissioners are a body of learned and highly competent persons, and I have no control over them.

Captain CRAIG

asked the Chief Secretary if Miss Degani, the present holder of the chair of Spanish and Italian at University College, Dublin, ever applied for the position to which she had been appointed; if so, when was her application made and what qualifications for the position did she allege herself to be possessed of; if he was aware that Convocation of the National University unanimously adopted a resolution at its meeting on the 28th April last condemning the manner of her appointment; and what steps did the University authorities propose to take in regard to Convocation's, complaint and unanimous resolution?

Mr. BIRRELL

I have nothing whatever to do with the appointment of professors or lecturers in the University. I have no sources of information, and I am therefore entirely unable to answer the question.

Captain CRAIG

Are we to understand that when any wrong has been done under this Act of Parliament there is no Minister in the House to answer for it?

Mr. BIRRELL

The University is a self-governing body. I have no more control over it than over the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge.

Mr. GINNELL

asked the Chief Secretary why the Dublin Commissioners, under The Irish Universities Act, 1908, had not, in accordance with the practice of such bodies, stated in their final Report the dates of all meetings held by them, with the names of the Commissioners present at each; why he had not followed the practice of other Ministers by placing a copy of the proceedings of the Commissioners in the Library; whether those proceedings show that Miss Degani appeared, in the first instance, as a candidate for a lectureship in her native German only, producing, as a credential of ability, her own assertion that she had prepared for certain examinations, without claiming to have passed them, and, as her sole credential of character, a statement from an Irish lady of things she had heard Miss Degani say of herself; if he would say by whom Miss Degani was prompted to apply in November, 1909, for a joint lectureship in Italian and Spanish which was not created until 1910; if he could explain, consistently with the exercise of a free choice by the Commissioners, the fact that Miss Degani announced in a printed document, circulated in London in 1909, that she had obtained the dual appointment at Dublin which was neither filled nor created until 1910, and her subsequent appointment by the Commissioners without exposing her to the risk of fair competition; at whose instance, and for what reason, Miss Degani was thus favoured with information and position withheld from the two Irish ladies found best entitled to them in open competition by the governing body of University College; why this particular lectureship alone was withdrawn from open competition; and whether it was the only one created and filled by them at the same meeting without public notice?

The HON. MEMBER

had also given notice of the following questions: To ask the Chief Secretary (1) whether it was at his instance the Board of Intermediate Education for Ireland gave Miss Degani a temporary examinership last summer; whether he was aware that their advising examiner reported Miss Degani to the Board for incompetence; what became of her lectureships in Italian and Spanish while so engaged; and there being no dearth of competent examiners in Ireland, whether he would take steps to prevent future tampering with Irish education and wasting Irish money for the benefit of a lady having irresponsible patrons; (2) if he would state, from the proceedings of the Dublin Commissioners under The Irish Universities Act, 1908, what educational distinctions, qualifications, and record in Italian and Spanish, respectively, were produced by the Irish ladies chosen by the governing body of University College, Dublin, for lectureships in those subjects, and by the lady to whom the temporary Commissioners afterwards gave the dual position; what was the explanation of that lady's refusal to lecture in Spanish for the A course in which literature is set as the chief subject in the official regulations for the courses of study at University College; and whether the regulations made by the college authorities were modified for the convenience of any professor or lecturer but Miss Degani; (3) if he would state the dates of the Statute creating separate lectureships in Italian and Spanish in University College, Dublin; of the public announcement that lecturers would be appointed; of the selection from among the candidates by the governing body of the college, with the names of those selected; of the altered intention of the Dublin Commissioners conveyed to Miss Degani, with the name of the person who conveyed it; of Miss Degani's application for a dual position not then existing; and of the meeting at which the Commissioners cancelled their previous Statute, made a new Statute creating a joint lectureship, and, without waiting for it to be ratified and without public notice, appointed Miss Degani to it, with the names of the Commissioners present at that meeting; (4) in view of the creation by the Dublin Commissioners under the Irish Universities Act, 1908, of separate lectureships in Italian and Spanish in University College, Dublin, and the selection, after public notice, by the governing body of that college of the two candidates best qualified for those positions, if he would state the Commissioners' reason for cancelling all this, uniting the two lectureships, and at the same meeting, with no application for the dual position before them but that of a person previously informed of their purpose, conferring it, on the sole recommendation of a medical doctor ignorant of both Italian and Spanish, on a person confessedly incompetent to discharge the duties of the position and since refusing to discharge them; and, in view of the discredit to the new University from this appointment to its teaching staff, whether the lady would be removed forthwith from the position in which she had been improperly placed, referred to her patrons, and the position filled in the regular manner; (5) if he would say What answer the Dublin Commissioners, under The Irish Universities Act, 1908, gave to the resolution adopted unanimously by Convocation of the National University expressing regret at the action of the Dublin Commissioners in abolishing the lectureships in Italian and Spanish originally created by them at University College, Dublin, and in substituting therefor a joint lectureship in those subjects, and stating that Convocation was entitled to an explanation from the Commissioners; and why the appointment to the joint lectureship was made by them without having been first advertised in the usual way; and (6), in view of the facts that the Statutes made by the Dublin Commissioners under The Irish Universities Act, 1903, gave Convocation of the National University power to discuss and pronounce an opinion on any matter whatsoever relating to the University, and that the meeting of Convocation was the only opportunity allowed to free members of that body for exercising that power of discussing and pronouncing an opinion, whether it was at his instance, and, if not, at whose, the clerk of Convocation refused to insert on the agenda for the meeting of Convocation on the 20th October, 1911, a resolution of a member duly served on him dealing with the surreptitious appointment to the joint lectureship in Italian and Spanish; whether Convocation had power to dismiss its clerk or to have his salary withheld for insubordination; and what steps he proposed to take to restore to Convocation its restricted powers under the Statutes and its freedom to discuss appointments in its opinion calculated to injure the University at the outset of its career?

Mr. BIRRELL

I will answer all the questions in the name of the hon. Member for North Westmeath together. The reports of the Dublin Commissioners under the Irish Universities Act, 1908, have been duly presented to Parliament and circulated to Members, and I am not aware of the existence of any other report of their proceedings. I had nothing whatever to do with Miss Degani's appointments either in the University College, Dublin, or under the Intermediate Education Board, or with any of the other matters referred to in these questions. I have no responsibility for them, nor do I possess the means of information which would enable me to answer them. The University is a self-governing body.

Mr. GINNELL

Seeing that the Cambridge certificate for secondary teachers does not certify the holder to be competent to teach Spanish, and that the examination for it does not comprise Spanish, will the Chief Secretary say what competent authority in Spanish certifies Miss Degani as capable of speaking that language?

Mr. BIRRELL

I have no knowledge as to what the Cambridge certificate may be, nor as to any of the other matters.

Mr. GINNELL

Is the Chief Secretary aware that Miss Degani got Catholic support in Ireland by claiming to have taught in Wycombe Abbey, which was understood in Ireland to be a convent, whereas it is, as a matter of fact, a big Protestant school?

Mr. BIRRELL

I have nothing whatever to do with Miss Degani's appointment. It was made by the Dublin Commission.