NINTH SCHEDULE.—Provisions of the Factory and Workshop Act, 1901, applied to Special Orders made under Part II., of this Act relating to Unemployment Insurance. (Hansard, 24 November 1911)

§ Mr. HOLT
I beg to move, after the word "competent" in section 81 paragraph (1) ["appoint a competent person"] to insert the words "and impartial."

Mr. BUXTON
I do not object to the words "and impartial."

§ Mr. HOLT
I beg to move, in the same paragraph after the word "person" ["appoint a competent person"] to insert the words "not being permanently in the employ of any Government Department." This Amendment is simply to carry out a pledge given by the President of the Board of Trade in the discussion on Clause 77.

Mr. BUXTON
What I undertook was that the person carrying out the special inquiry should not be an official of the Board of Trade, but somebody competent in these matters and impartial. As I said at the time, that certainly was the view we took about it, but my hon. Friend's Amendment rules out all possible Government Officials in any other Department, and I think it might very well happen that in some of these cases an official of the Local Government Board, or of the Home Office, or some other Department, might be the most competent and impartial person to carry out the inquiry. That would really have nothing to do with the Board of Trade, and I certainly could not agree to rule out all Government Departments. I do not think my hon. Friend could expect me to accept those words in an Act of Parliament, and I did not think he was going to move them. I gave him an undertaking which was binding, but I hope he will not ask us to put words into an Act of Parliament which would really cast a slur upon Government Departments, and ought not to appear in any Act, and certainly, if they did appear, not in this part of the Act at all. I give my hon. Friend the undertaking that the person appointed shall not be a Board of Trade official.

§ Mr. HOLT
I am sure there has been a genuine misunderstanding on this subject. I certainly understood that the President of the Board of Trade agreed to accept these words in the discussion on Clause 77, but if my hon. Frined says there has been a misunderstanding, that settles the matter, and I beg to withdraw my Amendment.

Mr. BUXTON
Yes, you have the undertaking.

§ Mr. PETO
I only want to ask the President of the Board of Trade this one question. In the Ninth Schedule there are provisions for holding various inquiries. In many of these cases it will be clearly necessary to occupy a good deal of the workman's time, and that will obviously mean some interference with the course of business. I do not complain about it, but I should ask that workmen should not be taken from their employment and compelled to spend many hours of their time without somebody or other paying them for it. It seems to me that it would be obviously equally unfair for the employer to pay for the time lost as for the workman to lose it, and I cannot see, on looking through the Schedules, any provision that, out of the unemployment fund, or from some other source, the workman's wages shall be paid during the time he is occupied in attending these inquiries.

Mr. BUXTON
I am afraid we have no funds out of which the particular payments to which the hon. Member refers can be made. This is the ordinary special procedure rule. Perhaps the hon. Member will allow me to look into them, and I will report the result of my inquiry. This particular point had not occurred to me, but I am afraid we have no funds.

§ Mr. PETO
I hope that neither workman nor employer shall be at a loss on account of the time which they have to spend in attendance.

§ Mr. J. WARD
I have been connected with one of those inquiries under this Clause, and it was unquestionably the case, under the Home Office, that the witnesses who were called before the Tribunal to decide on these special rules were paid.

Mr. BUXTON
I did not understand that the hon. Member was referring to official witnesses. I thought he was referring to others who might have to attend. Witnesses certainly would be paid.

Mr. BUXTON
I am very much obliged to hon. Members in all quarters 2119 of the Committee for waiting so late this evening in order now to finish this Committee stage. Perhaps they will allow me, also, on behalf of my hon. and learned Friend equally with myself, to thank them very much, not only for the courteous, but for the very friendly way in which the various discussions have taken place. The Government Amendments have been treated with the utmost possible consideration. I venture to hope that hon. Members may think also that their Amendments have been treated with equal consideration and courtesy. I think the fact that this Bill has gone through Grand Committee in six days shows that, taken as a whole, it was a fairly compact and water-tight proposition which was laid before the Committee; but I wish to recognise to the fullest possible extent that the labours of the Committee and the assistance which they have given will leave the Bill on 2120 a much more workable and water-tight basis than it was when it entered this Committee Room. I thank hon. Members opposite very much for the consideration which they have given it, and for the friendly way in which these discussions have been carried on. And, in regard to those who are supporters of the Government, whether they actually sit on Liberal benches or not, I have to thank them for the two things they have done. One is their great regularity of attendance, I am afraid very often at great personal inconvenience, and the second is their great self-repression—a quality which it is even more difficult sometimes to exercise. I thank them for both, and I thank the Committee generally for the kindness and consideration which they have shown to myself, and those who have been acting with me.