§ (1) Every rope used for haulage which is capped shall be recapped at intervals of not more than six months in accordance with general regulations under this Act.
§ (2) Sufficient and suitable sprags lockers or drags shall be provided and used for the purpose of holding a tub or set of tubs—
- (a) at the top of every incline on which the haulage is worked by gravity;
- (b) at every place where sets or trains of tubs are coupled or uncoupled;
- (c) on all roads where the gradient exceeds one in twenty, and the haulage is worked by animal power.
§ (3) Stop blocks or other suitable contrivance shall be provided at the top of every incline on which the haulage is worked by gravity other than endless-rope haulage and at every entrance thereto by which tubs are brought on to the incline.
§ (4) On every haulage road where mechanical other than endless-rope haulage is used, and where the gradient exceeds one in twelve—
- (a) runaway switches or other suitable contrivances shall be provided where the use thereof is practicable to prevent accidents in the event of a tub running away;
- (b) there shall be provided and attached to an ascending tub or set of tubs a
1577 back-stay or other suitable contrivance for preventing the tub running back; - (c) over chains, bridle chains, or other suitable appliances shall be provided to prevent tubs in which persona are being conveyed from becoming disconnected and running away.
§ Mr. WEBBI beg to propose in Sub-section (1), after the word "haulage," to insert the words "not being a jig rope."
§ Mr. C. BATHURSTI beg to second the Amendment.
§ Amendment negatived.
§ Mr. BUTCHERI beg to propose in Sub-section (2), after the word "suitable," to insert the words "wrought iron."
As hon. Members know, the lockers are small pieces of wood or iron which are used to act as brakes and prevent the tubs running down. The mortality to ponies from that cause is very serious. Mr. Pickering, one of His Majesty's inspectors, in his evidence before the recent Commission, was asked about accident's in mines:—
'Are they unavoidable ones'? 'Yes,' he said, 'but some are avoidable. A man may neglect his lockers, and the tub will run on to the pony and kill it. This kind of accident should not happen. But a runaway tub causes an accident which can be avoided. The mortality among these ponies is very serious indeed.'Mr. Butterley, asked what kind of accidents, says:—In the case where a horse is coming down for tubs and a locker breaks, or the horse puts its foot on the rail and slips, the weight of the tub throws him forward and breaks his leg or cripples him in some manner.The reason is that the wooden lockers break, and to make the thing effective you have to have iron lockers. Upon that very important evidence is given by Mr. Cook, assistant under-manager in the Wath Main Colliery in Yorkshire. His evidence comes to this, that while they used wooden lockers there were very many accidents in his mines from tubs running down the ponies, but when they began to use iron lockers, there were no accidents at all.
§ Sir A. MARKHAMWill you quote that?
§ Mr. BUTCHERCertainly. It is at pages 203 and 204 of the evidence.
1578 The witness was asked the following questions by Mr. Enoch Edwards:—
The number of ponies you have is 114?—Yes.The number killed, destroyed, or died in five years is 128?—Yes.The first one 'Scottie' was killed: corves—overpowered him—broken lockers. That is the locker you were referring to?—Yes.The next one is locker broke, tubs overpowered him. These are all in January. This is the 7th?—Yes.Then Mr. Enoch Edwards said:—What happens is that the gradient of the road is so sharp that they must put some brake in, and they put a locker in the wheel on a piece of the road. If they do not, it runs the horse down. In some cases the locker has broken, and in this one I have just referred to they did not put the locker in.[HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."] Let me read on. The witness said:—As I said in my statement, many of them (the ponies) are killed through neglect of lockers, and sometimes they (the drivers) will say they had the lockers in and they broke. That is the reason we are having iron lockers instead of wooden ones now.In other words, wooden lockers are liable to breakage, or the boys may say that they were broken when they were not broken. [An HON. MEMBER: "And iron lockers as well."] Let me read the witness's evidence. He said:—That is the reason we are having iron lockers instead of wooden ones now.Then Mr. Wm. Abraham (Rhondda), asked:—But with the iron locker, the average is nearly as high as it was before?—No.The last questions on this subject were:—Have you had as many accidents since you got the iron lockers?—No.If there was an accident it would not arise through a broken locker?—I have not known any case where an iron locker has broken. They are of sufficient strength, and above, to do the work.This is really the material evidence on this subject, and what it amounts to is this, that if you have wooden lockers there are two objections—either they break, or the boys say that they break, in order to hide their own neglect. Then there is the very important fact that whereas there were large numbers of accidents with the wooden lockers, since the use of iron lockers, they have had no accidents at this colliery, and I would ask the House whether this is not really a case where they might lay down that there should be iron lockers. It is not as if it would involve an enormous cost to the coal-owners.
§ Sir A. MARKHAMIron lockers are cheaper and they last much longer.
§ Mr. BUTCHERI am obliged to the hon. Baronet for his information, and 1579 unless some reason is given which I have not been able to discover I shall certainly proceed with my Amendment.
§ Mr. C. BATHURSTI beg to Second the Amendment.
Mr. HUNTERI hope the hon. Member will not press this Amendment. There was a very full discussion in Grand Committee upon this matter, and the conclusion arrived at was that the best words to insert were the words "sufficient and suitable." The reason for adopting that course was that the Royal Commission had considered that very point which the hon. and learned Member is now urging. They made no recommendation at all, and they could not have very well made a recommendation, because the expert committee who had to deal with this matter reported that while iron lockers were less liable to break, they were more liable to fly out of the wheel, and in view of that report, the Committee would not accept the proposal which was made to use iron lockers.
§ Mr. S. ROBERTSMay I ask my hon. and learned Friend not to press the Amendment? I think the words "sufficient and suitable" cover the requirements of the case. In some instances wood is far better than iron. Iron lockers are apt to break men's fingers, and do damage of that kind.
§ Mr. JOHN WILLIAMSI can speak on this subject from a practical standpoint. I have used both the wooden and the iron sprags, and I have found the iron sprags very unreliable indeed. The iron sprag is apt to slip through and not to catch on, and it is also liable to jump out when the tram drags. The wooden sprag is always reliable, except when it has been too much used and becomes tender. I think the words in the Sub-section providing that they should be "sufficient and suitable" are enough.
§ Question, "That those words be there inserted in the Bill," put, and negatived.
§ Colonel HICKMANI beg to move, in Sub-section (2), paragraph (b), after the word "place" ["place where sets"], to insert the words "on an incline."
The object of this Amendment is to make quite sure that these lockers are put in where there is danger of the tubs running 1580 away. I think the words have been omitted through an error on the part of the drafting clerk, and that they should have been put in originally.
Mr. HUNTERI cannot accept the Amendment. The words of the Bill are in accordance with the recommendation of the expert committee of the Royal Commission. It is not in consequence of any error of draftsmanship that the words suggested by the hon. Member opposite have not been inserted.
§ Colonel HICKMANI ask leave to withdraw my Amendment.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§ Mr. C. BATHURSTI beg to move, in Sub-section (1), paragraph (c), after the word "roads" ["roads where the gradient"], to insert the words "or parts of roads."
The object of my Amendment is to make quite sure that these checks are put upon the tubs in the case where the average gradient may not exceed one in twenty, but there may be a stretch of road in which it does exceed one in twenty, and very serious injury might occur to the pony in consequence. At any rate, there would be an undue strain on the pony in that particular part where the gradient is more steep. I ask the Government to accept the Amendment as one in the interests of humanity.
§ Sir F. BANBURYI beg to second the Amendment.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Mr. BUTCHERI beg to move, in paragraph (c), to leave out the words "the gradient exceeds one in twenty and."
I move this in order to insert other words in a subsequent Amendment. I see no reason why the gradient should be specified as one in twenty. One in twenty-one would be just as dangerous, or even one in twenty-five or one in thirty. The real question is when ought these sprags to be provided. Surely they ought to be provided in any case where the tubs have a tendency to run down. I want to put it in general terms, and personally I see no reason why the gradient should be limited.
§ Mr. C. BATHURSTI beg to second the Amendment.
Mr. HUNTERI cannot accept the suggestion. I do not know that there is any material difference between the view of the hon. and learned Gentleman and the view we entertain. It is considered necessary and desirable that we should have some definite standard of inclination. That has been fixed at one in twenty, and is more satisfactory than to adopt indefinite language as suggested.
§ Mr. BUTCHERWould the hon. and learned Gentleman have any objection to the words of my second Amendment following the words now in the Clause?
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§ Mr. BUTCHERI beg to move, in paragraph (c), after the word "power," to insert the words "or the gradient is such as to cause the tub, or set of tubs, to run down, or tend to run down, on the animal engaged in hauling."
Mr. HUNTERWe have already a fixed standard, and it would be inadvisable to accept this proposal. In the absence of any scientific evidence that a margin of safety has not been provided for, I do not think there is any necessity for the Amendment.
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEI would ask the Government to accept this Amendment,
| Division No. 406.] | AYES. | [2.37 p.m. |
| Anstruther-Gray, Major William | Grant, J. A. | Rothschild, Lionel de |
| Ashley, W. W. | Greenwood, Granville G. (Peterborough) | Rowntree, Arnold |
| Bagot, Lieut.-Colonel J. | Gretton, John | Sanders, Robert A. |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Gwynne, R. S. (Sussex, Eastbourne) | Sandys, G. J. (Somerset, Wells) |
| Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil) | Sutherland, J. E. |
| Boscawen, Sir Arthur S. T. Griffith- | Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, W.) | Sykes, Mark (Hull, Central) |
| Boyton, J. | Henderson, Major H. (Berks, Abingdon) | Ward, Arnold (Herts, Watford) |
| Bridgeman, W. Clive | Hunt, Rowland | Watt, Henry A. |
| Bryce, J. Annan | Lonsdale, Sir John Brownlee | Willoughby, Major Hon. Claud |
| Carlile, Sir Edward Hildred | Martin, J. | Wolmer, Viscount |
| Cautley, Henry Strother | Neville, Reginald J. N. | Wood, John (Stalybridge) |
| Crawshay-Williams, Eliot | Newman, John R. P. | Yate, Colonel C. E. |
| Fleming, Valentine | Parkes, Ebenezer | |
| Fletcher, John Samuel (Hampstead) | Pointer, Joseph | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Mr. C. Bathurst and Mr. Butcher |
| Gilmour, Captain John | Pollock, Ernest Murray | |
| Gordon, Hon. John Edward (Brighton) | Richardson, Thomas (Whitehaven) |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Dublin Harbour) | Benn, W. W. (Tower Hamlets, St. Geo.) | Chapple, Dr. W. A. |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine | Clynes, J. R. |
| Adamson, William | Booth, Frederick Handel | Collins, G. P. (Greenock) |
| Agnew, Sir George William | Bowerman, C. W. | Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) |
| Alden, Percy | Buckmaster, Stanley O. | Condon, Thomas Joseph |
| Allen, Arthur Acland (Dumbartonshire) | Burn, Colonel C. R. | Cooper, Richard Ashmole |
| Baird, J. L. | Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Cory, Sir Clifford John |
| Baker, H. T. (Accrington) | Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas | Cotton, William Francis |
| Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.) | Buxton, Rt. Hon. Sydney C. (Poplar) | Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth) |
| Balcarres, Lord | Byles, Sir William Pollard | Crooks, William |
| Banner, John S. Harmood- | Cameron, Robert | Crumley, Patrick |
| Barnes, G. N. | Castlereagh, Viscount | Dalziel, Sir James H. (Kirkcaldy) |
| Beck, Arthur Cecil | Chancellor, H. G. | Davies, Timothy (Lincs., Louth) |
§ as it does not weaken the Clause in any way, and to do so as an act of justice to the poor ponies.
§ Sir F. BANBURYI hope also that the Government will accept the Amendment. It is quite impossible to say that anything less than one in twenty is absolutely safe. If there is danger it should be provided for, and I think the Amendment is a very reasonable one.
§ Sir A. MARKHAMReally, does anybody suggest that in a gradient of less than one in twenty injury is done? I do not see any objection to the words myself, but they are wholly unnecessary.
§ Sir F. BANBURYThe hon. Baronet knows that very often trucks run down on a particular incline, and you cannot lay down an absolutely specific degree of inclination beyond which nothing will happen.
§ Sir A. MARKHAMIn all railway companies and in all sidings there is a fixed gradient laid down by the railway companies, and on that gradient the whole of the traffic is worked.
§ Question put, "That those words be there inserted in the Bill."
§ The House divided: Ayes, 44; Noes, 155.
| Dawes, J. A. | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire) | Reddy, M. |
| Denman, Hon. Richard Douglas | Jones, W. S. Glyn- (Stepney) | Richards, Thomas |
| Donelan, Captain A. | Jowett, F. W. | Richardson, Albion (Peckham) |
| Doris, W. | Joyce, Michael | Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) |
| Edwards, Clement (Glamorgan, E.) | Joynson-Hicks, William | Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradford) |
| Edwards, Enoch (Hanley) | Lansbury, George | Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke) |
| Esmonds, Dr. John (Tipperary, N.) | Lawson, Sir W. (Cumb'rld, Cockerm'th) | Roche, John (Galway, E.) |
| Fell, Arthur | Lewis, John Herbert | Rowlands, James |
| Fenwick, Rt. Hon. Charles | Lyell, Charles Henry | Russell, Rt. Hon. Thomas W. |
| Ferens, T. R. | Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) | Samuel, Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland) |
| Gill, A. H. | Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk Burghs) | Scott, A. MacCallum (Glas., Bridgeton) |
| Gladstone, W. G. C. | Macnamara, Rt. Hon. Dr. T. J. | Sherwell, Arthur James |
| Glanville, H. J. | Macpherson, James Ian | Simon, Sir John Allsebrook |
| Goulding, Edward Alfred | McKenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald | Snowden, P. |
| Greig, Colonel J. W. | Malcolm, Ian | Soames, Arthur Wellesley |
| Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward | Markham, Sir Arthur Basil | Spicer, Sir Albert |
| Guest, Hon. Major C. H. C. (Pembroke) | Mason, David M. (Coventry) | Stanley, Hon. G. F. (Preston) |
| Hackett, J. | Masterman, C. F. G. | Strauss, Edward A. (Southwark, West) |
| Hall, Frederick (Normanton) | Meagher, Michael | Sutton, John E. |
| Hamilton, Lord C. J. (Kensington, S.) | Millar, James Duncan | Taylor, John W. (Durham) |
| Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | Mooney, J. J. | Tennant, Harold John |
| Harmsworth, Cecil (Luton, Beds.) | Morrell, Philip | Thomas, J. H. (Derby) |
| Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N. E.) | Munro, R. | Thorne, William (West Ham) |
| Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | Murray, Capt Hon. A. C. | Wadsworth, J. |
| Havelock-Allan, Sir Henry | Nannetti, Joseph P. | Walsh, Stephen (Lancs., Ince) |
| Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Neilson, Francis | Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent) |
| Henderson, J. M. (Aberdeen, W.) | Newdegate, F. A. | Wardle, George J. |
| Henry, Sir Charles S. | Nelan, Joseph | Warner, Sir Thomas Courtenay |
| Herbert, Col. Sir Ivar | Norman, Sir Henry | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney) |
| Hickman, Col. T. E. | Norton, Captain Cecil W. | Webb, H. |
| Horne, C. Silvester (Ipswich) | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Whitehouse, John Howard |
| Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | O'Grady, James | Wilkie, Alexander |
| Hudson, Walter | Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend) | Williams, J. (Glamorgan) |
| Hughes, S. L. | Pearce, William (Limehouse) | Wilson, John (Durham, Mid) |
| Hunter, W. (Govan) | Pease, Rt. Hon. Joseph A. (Rotherham) | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Isaacs, Rt. Hon. Sir Rufus | Pollard, Sir George H. | Wood, Rt. Hon. T. McKinnon (Glas.) |
| Jardine, Sir J. (Roxburgh) | Pringle, William M. R. | |
| Johnson, W. | Raffan, Peter Wilson | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr. Gulland and Mr. Dudley Ward. |
| Jones, Edgar (Merthyr Tydvil) | Raphael, Sir Herbert H. | |
| Jones, Leif Stratten (Notts, Rushcliffe) | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough) |
§ Amendment made: In Sub-section (3), leave out the words "suitable, contrivance," and insert instead thereof the words "similar contrivances."—[Mr. Masterman.]
§ Mr. S. ROBERTSI beg to move, in Sub-section (4) (c), to leave out the words "over chains."
I am told that when going round a curve these chains might get tight and knock persons over.
§ Mr. C. BATHURSTI beg to second the Amendment.
Mr. HUNTERWe cannot accept this Amendment. The paragraph refers to "over chains, bridle chains, or other suitable appliances," and it would not do to alter it in the way proposed.
§ Amendment negatived.