HC Deb 22 November 1911 vol 31 cc1182-5
Mr. WILLIAM PEEL

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he can state what are the total expenses connected with the preparation, printing, issue, and service of the documents known as Form IV. to occupying owners, and of Form VIII., which have recently been declared illegal by the Court of Appeal; how many of such forms have been issued or printed; what is his estimate for the issue and preparation of altered and improved Forms VI. and Forms VIII. in substitution of the documents condemned, and of the approximate amount of legal expenses incurred by the Treasury in defending these forms; and whether he will take steps in future to obtain competent legal advice upon the legality of forms so issued, in view of the fact that the Master of the Rolls described Form VIII as waste paper?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

No separate record has been kept of the expense of issuing the particular forms referred to. Twelve million two hundred and sixty thousand Forms IV. and 850,000 Forms VIII. have been printed, but I am unable to give the precise number of such forms that have actually been issued. No estimate has been framed for the issue and preparation of improved forms in substitution of any that were issued in circumstances that have been held to make them invalid. Competent legal advice would be taken in connection with any new issue. The approximate amount of legal expenses incurred by the Treasury in legal proceedings connected with the forms referred to in the question is £1,100.

Mr. PEEL

Can the right hon. Gentleman tell me whether the expense of the preparation and issue of these forms has been many times more than the product of the land taxes?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

No, Sir, I cannot give the hon. Gentleman the information.

Mr. PEEL

Can the right hon. Gentleman tell me to what use all these forms were put before they became all these tons of waste paper?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

I am not prepared to admit that they are all tons of waste paper.

Sir C. KINLOCH-COOKE

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will state in how many cases legal proceedings have been taken by the Government in respect of Form IV., and what is the total expenditure incurred by the State in connection with such proceedings; in how many cases the Government have been successful; and whether it is their intention to refund the expenses to which individuals have been put in defending themselves against inquiries made on forms now declared illegal?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

No legal proceedings have been taken by the Government in respect of Form IV.; the second, third, and fourth parts of the question do not therefore arise.

Mr. CASSEL

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman if it is not a fact that the Chancellor of the Exchequer stated that he would take into consideration whether the Treasury would pay the costs of this test case?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

That question does not arise out of the answer.

Sir HILDRED CARLILE

asked whether 2d. commission was paid on each of the eleven million copies distributed in Great Britain of Form IV. (Land Valuation), now declared to be invalid and unauthorised; what expense had been previously incurred in connection with the preparation, printing, paper, ink, parcelling, addressing, and forwarding of these forms in addition to the above commission of more than £91,000; and to whom this commission was paid?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

The remuneration paid to the officers by whom Forms IV. were distributed, who in England were for the most part Assessors of Taxes and in Scotland Surveyors of Taxes or Land Valuation Assessors, varied with the amount and character of the work that they were required to perform and included all office expenses. In addition an expenditure of £8,000 was incurred on printing and paper.

Sir H. CARLILE

Will the right hon. Gentleman give me the other details asked for on the question with reference to the expense of preparing the form and the payment of 2d. per copy for distribution?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

I cannot give any more information than I have given now.

Several HON. MEMBERS

rose.

Mr. SPEAKER

Hon. Members will see that there are 120 questions on the Paper.

Mr. NEWMAN

asked whether the late inspector of gas to the corporation of Sevenoaks has been offered and accepted an appointment as land valuation officer at High Wycombe; and what examination, if any, he had to pass before being appointed to said post?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

I have been unable to verify the suggestion of the hon. Member that an inspector of gas has been offered an appointment as land valuation officer.

Mr. PRETYMAN

May I ask, arising out of that—

Mr. SPEAKER

The right hon. Gentleman has given a most explicit answer to the question. If the hon. Member requires any additional information, all he has got to do is to put a question down.

Mr. NEWMAN

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, having regard to the decision of the High Court in connection with the two forms known as Forms IV. and VIII., he is in a position to state the methods that will be adopted in Ireland for ascertaining from owners, on whom the forms have not yet been served and returned, the preliminary information that will be necessary to enable the land valuation authorities to serve a provisional valuation of total and site value in respect of each Irish hereditament?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

The recent decision of the Court of Appeal does not affect Form IV. as issued in Ireland; as regards Form VIII. the question of its revision is under consideration.

Mr. NEWMAN

Is Form IV. issued in Ireland then?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

Yes; I gave the figures the other day.

Viscount WOLMER

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what the total costs of the issue of Forms IV. and VIII. has been; and whether he proposes to introduce legislation making their return duly filled up by those to whom they are sent compulsory?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD

As regards the first part of the question, no separate record has been kept of the cost incurred in connection with the particular forms mentioned. I am not yet in a position to make any statement as regards the action to be taken as a result of the decision of the Court of Appeal.