§ Mr. WILKIEasked the Lord Advocate whether in the new regulations for the training of teachers in Scotland the right of nominating junior students, hitherto possessed by the larger school boards, is withdrawn and transferred to the secondary education committees; and on what grounds these boards, from whose schools the junior students are drawn, in whose schools they are to receive their practical training, and who are to be their future employers, have been deprived of this privilege?
§ The LORD ADVOCATE (Mr. Ure)Clause 57 of the Regulations for the Training of Teachers, to which the hon. Member refers, has been deleted, as it is in conflict with Section 17 (5) (a) of the Act of 1908, which confers the power of awarding bursaries (including junior student allowances) from the district education fund upon the secondary education committee of the district. On the ground of future employment, the boards in question have no more reason to claim to direct the training of teachers than the other school boards and managers in Scotland, while as regards the use of their schools for practical training the school boards powers of making arrangements with the provincial committee as a matter of bargain are in no way impaired.
§ Mr. WILKIEasked the Lord Advocate whether in the new regulations for the training of teachers in Scotland the express obligation which has hitherto rested upon secondary education committees to provide bursaries for junior students is abolished; whether this is regarded as a breach of the understanding on which the abolition of the pupil teacher system was acquiesced in, namely, that bursaries would be provided to take the place of the 199 salaries formerly paid to pupil teachers, so that thereby the way to the teaching profession should still be left open to the children of parents of slender means; and whether he will take steps to have the provision restored?
§ Mr. UREAs explained in my previous answer, the Clause of the Regulations referred to has been deleted, because it is contrary to Statute. Judging from the action of the secondary education committees in the past, there is no ground for anticipating that they will not in the future, as in the past, have due regard to the desirability of providing allowances whereby the children of parents of slender means may have the way as open as heretofore, not merely to the teaching profession, but to any other profession. Should any evidence to the contrary be produced the matter will be further considered.
§ Mr. WILKIEDo I understand the right hon. Gentleman to say that in future the pupil teachers will get the same privileges as in the past?
§ Mr. WATTWill the right hon. Gentleman say why so great a delay occurred between the passing of the Act and the discovery by the Scotch Office this conflict was involved?
§ Mr. WILKIEasked the Lord Advocate what steps he proposes to take, in view of the proposal to deprive school boards of their direct representation on the committees for the training of teachers, to give effect to the intention of the Secretary for Scotland, as expressed in the prefatory memorandum to the original minute of 30th January, 1905, where he explicitly declares that one object of these committees is to provide means whereby school boards and others directly interested in the question of the supply of teachers shall be in a position to secure due consideration for their views?
§ Mr. UREThe declaration of the memorandum referred to, which, it will be observed, does not relate merely to school boards, is amply carried out by the constitution of the provincial committees, on which the school boards of Scotland collectively will have an undoubtedly preponderant representation.
§ Mr. WILKIEasked the Lord Advocate whether by minute, dated 15th August, 1911, providing for the establishment of the committees for the training of teachers, it is proposed to deprive school boards of the direct representation which they have had since the constitution of these committees in 1906, notwithstanding the fact that school boards are the only popularly elected authorities represented on the committees and are the bodies most directly interested in the training of teachers; and the reason for the proposed change?
§ Mr. UREAs stated in the answer to the previous question, school boards, as being the bodies most directly interested in the training of teachers have a predominant representation on the provincial committees, and that representation has been in no way lessened by the minute referred to. It is not the case, however, as stated in the question that school boards, since 1906, have been directly represented. Direct representation of all school boards is an impossibility, and the minute in question, following upon the minute of 10th August, 1909, which greatly increased the representation of school boards upon secondary education committees, merely substituted in the case of school boards in general a more convenient and businesslike method of indirect election for the method of indirect election which formerly obtained. As regards the larger school boards, however, which have hitherto been directly represented, I would refer the hon. Member to the amending minute of date 31st October last, which secures that each of those boards shall have not less than the number of members on the provincial committee that they have had hitherto, though the method of election is changed in conformity with that which obtains for other school boards.
§ Mr. PIRIEArising out of that very complicated answer, necessarily and purposely so—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh!"]—purposely so, perhaps; if it was prepared by the permanent officials of the Scotch Office, more likely so. Might I ask whether the general tendency of recent minutes of the Scotch Office is not to "anti-democratise" Scotch education?