CLAUSE 17.—(Bringing in of Ship Papers.)

HC Deb 03 November 1911 vol 30 cc1193-5

(1) The captors shall in all cases, with all practicable speed, bring the ship papers into the registry of the Court.

(2) The officer in command, or one of the chief officers of the capturing ship, or some other person who was present at the capture and saw the ship papers delivered up or found on board, shall make oath that they are brought in as they were taken, without fraud, addition, subduction, or alteration, or else shall account on oath to the satisfaction of the Court for the absence or altered condition of the ship papers or any of them.

(3) Where no ship papers are delivered up or found on board the captured ship, the officer in command, or one of the chief officers of the capturing ship, or some other person who was present at the capture, shall make oath to that effect.

Mr. BUTCHER

I beg to move, at the end of Sub-section (1), to add the words, and such registry shall transmit to the Secretary of State for War and the First Lord of the Admiralty copies of any such papers as contain military, naval, or political information affecting the war, and shall, if required by a Secretary of State, hand over such papers to a Secretary of State. The object of this Amendment is plain on the face of it. It may be that amongst the ship's papers are State documents or other papers containing important information disclosing the enemy's plan of campaign, the disposition of the ships, and other matters which are extremely important to be known by the executive of the other belligerent. If such papers are found they should be sent at once to the proper authority in order that the information so afforded may be utilised. I would ask the Government, unless they can give some good reason for not doing so, to accept the Amendment.

Sir A. CRIPPS

I beg to second the Amendment.

Sir J. SIMON

Again, the object of the hon. and learned Member is a good one, but again I suggest that it is not desirable and it is certainly not necessary that we should insert these words. So far as they have any positive effect they merely require to be done that which in proper circumstances would be done, and so far as they have a negative effect they might conceivably have a restrictive effect. The King's Procter represents the Crown for the purposes of this Clause, and if documents were found of this character which it was desirable, not only for these important members of the Cabinet but for any member of the Cabinet to see, of course they would see them. I hope the hon. Gentleman will not suggest a form of words which might have some restrictive effect.

Mr. BUTCHER

I have had no information as to how they could have any restrictive effect. Is this Court only a Court in this country?

Sir J. SIMON

It is a British Court.

Mr. BUTCHER

So I thought. In other words you might have these important documents locked up in a Court in Australia or Canada, or any other British Possession. My object is to secure that these papers should be sent to the central authority in London, where they can be dealt with.

Sir J. SIMON

Does not the hon. Gentleman see that he might deprive the admiral on the station of the opportunity of seeing them, because they have got to be sent across to Europe?

Mr. BUTCHER

That objection could be met easily by saying that before they are sent, the admiral on the station should be afforded the opportunity of copying them, but I venture to think that the suggestion is only thrown out in despair as an argument against this proposal. I have heard no word of explanation as to how this Amendment is in any way restrictive, but if the Government choose to add any words to enable the admiral at the station where the Prize Court is, to have copies of them, I should, of course, accept it.

Mr. HAMAR GREENWOOD

I oppose the Amendment on the ground that it is redundant, and redundant words in a Statute are dangerous. May I point out to the hon. and learned Gentleman that under the words of the Statute the captors in the case would be British naval officers, and the first thing they would secure would be the ship's papers, and they would naturally search through them. Their instructions are to find out any information bearing on the war that is going on. Their first duty would be to communicate with their superior officers or other officials at home and the information which the hon. and learned Gentleman wishes to be given to the executive would be sent on without any express words having to be added here.

Mr. RIGBY SWIFT

I think that the hon. Member is perfectly right in saying that if the captain of a British ship were left alone the first thing he would do would be to send any papers he found to the British executive, but the Clause with which we are dealing deprives him of the right to send papers to the British executive, and provides that in all cases he should send them to the registry of the Court. When they are brought into the registry of the Court I presume that the Court would have to keep them, and will have to account and be responsible for them, and all that the Amendment proposed by my hon. Friend suggests is that the Court shall be empowered when the occasion necessitates to send copies of those documents over to the executive. The learned Solicitor-General said that difficulty would arise by taking the documents away from one side of the world to the other, but all that the Amendment suggests is that copies of the document should be sent across the world. The originals would stay where they were unless they were applied for by the Home Secretary. The Amendment can do no harm, but it makes clear what the powers of the registry are with these documents. As the Clause at present stands, it makes the Court responsible for them, and it will be very reluctant to part with them.

Amendment negatived.