§ Mr. GINNELLasked the President of the Board of Trade whether that Board makes any attempt, by requiring a lodgment of security or otherwise, to prevent moneyless adventurers getting themselves registered under the Friendly Societies Acts, then trading on the credulity of the poor as insuring societies, and applying to their own use all the premiums they receive; what steps the Board takes to prevent such bodies doing life insurance business in excess of the statutory limits; whether the National United Insurance Society, Limited, the United National Assurance Collecting Society, and Ireland's Life Assurance Society, all now collecting in Ireland, belong to this class; whether the Guardian Bank, Limited, guarantees, and is in a position to make good, the promises of the latter society; if not, what action he proposes to take in the matter; and, seeing that frauds are being committed within the limits of the Friendly Societies Acts by means of bogus whole-life policies, whether it is proposed to amend the law for the protection of the poor?
Mr. McKINNON WOODThe National United Insurance Society, Limited, is not a Friendly Society, but is registered under the Industrial and Provident Societies Act, 1893. The United National Friendly Assurance Collecting Society and Ireland's Life Assurance Collecting Society are registered under the Friendly Societies Acts. The Guardian Bank, Limited, is not registered either under the Industrial and Provident Societies Act or under the Friendly Societies Acts, and the Registrar of Friendly Societies has no information with regard to it. I would refer the hon. Member to my predecessor's answer to a question by the hon. Member for South Roscommon on 25th April last for information as to the security for policyholders held by the first of the above societies. The law does not enable the Registrar of Friendly Societies to require any security from persons applying for registration as friendly societies, but industrial and provident societies are liable to make the deposits required by the Assurance Companies Act, 1909, from bodies carrying on assurance business within the scope of that Act. If the hon. Member will let me have any specific information which may be in his possession tending to show that any of these societies are not conforming to the rules or are acting fraudulently, I will have careful investigation made.
§ Mr. GINNELLIn view of the fact that this question is addressed to the President of the Board of Trade, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman if the illegitimate doing of life insurance business brings a society within the jurisdiction of the Board of Trade, has not the illegitimate doing of that business the same effect?
§ The PRESIDENT of the BOARD of TRADE (Mr. Buxton)If the hon. Member will give me notice I will endeavour to give an answer.
§ Mr. GINNELLasked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is now in a position to state the number of insurance policies contracted by the so-called Irish Provident Assurance Company, which, on the face of them and in the opinion of the Irish Court of Appeal, must be regarded as life assurance policies contrary to the Statute and to that company's articles of association; the number of policies that company caused to lapse by instructing their agents to cease calling for the premiums, and then treating all the premiums paid as forfeited to them; the number of policies transferred at less than face value by five directors of that company to themselves as directors of the London and Provincial Company; whether the Board of Trade before allowing that transfer required those English directors to discharge all their Irish contracts or to make provision for discharging them; and, if not, the evidence awaited last July being now available, whether the Government will institute the prosecution then promised?
§ Mr. BUXTONThe Irish Provident Assurance Company, Limited, is being wound up under an Order made by the Irish Courts on the 24th April last, and there are no official facts in the possession of the Board of Trade as to the number of policies issued or lapsed by the company, or as to the number of policyholders of the Irish Provident Assurance Company, Limited, who have transferred their policies to the London and Provincial Assurance Company, Limited. The Board of Trade have no power to impose any conditions on the transfer of policies from one company to another. The only ground on which proceedings could be instituted by the Board of Trade is that the company has carried on life assurance business as defined by the Life Assurance Companies Acts, and on the information in my possession I am not satisfied that the company has ever carried on such business. If the hon. 867 Member sends any definite evidence it will, of course, have my careful consideration.
§ Mr. GINNELLWill the right hon. Gentleman not accept the decision of the Irish Court of Appeal as definite information?
§ Mr. BUXTONIf the hon. Member will send me a copy of it, I will be very glad to look into it.
§ Mr. GINNELLIs it not the duty of the Board of Trade to watch these things and not leave others to call attention to them?
§ Mr. BUXTONWe are bound under Statutes as to the action which we can take and which we cannot take, and so far as information is before us on this matter we are not in a position to take action. If the hon. Member will give us further information, I will be very glad to consider it.
§ Mr. GINNELLCan the right hon. Gentleman state how much of the policyholders' money has been set aside or earmarked for covering the cost of the liquidation in this case?
§ Mr. BUXTONI cannot say.
§ Mr. GINNELLasked the President of the Board of Trade, having regard to the recent report of the solicitor to the Board of Trade on defaulting liquidators, the refusal of the liquidator of the Irish Provident Assurance Company to give any information to aggrieved policy holders, and the fact that the Irish Provident, the London and Provincial, and the Provincial Homes Companies, amalgamated under the old directorate, still do business in the same Dublin office with the official liquidator, and collect money throughout Ireland through their former agents, whether he will have the relations and affairs of this liquidator and of this joint concern investigated and the result made public before more people in Ireland are victimised by them?
§ Mr. BUXTONThe Irish Provident Assurance Company, Limited, is being wound up under an Order made by the Irish Courts of Law on 24th April last, and, as I informed the hon. Member on 11th July and 19th July last, the winding up of the company is not under the control of the Board of Trade, but of the Irish Courts. With regard to the London and Provincial 868 Assurance Company, Limited, and the Provincial Homes Investment Company, Limited, the only power of the Board of Trade to investigate the affairs of these companies is that contained in Section 109 of the Companies (Consolidation) Act, 1908, which enables the Board of Trade to appoint one or more inspectors to investigate the affairs of the company on the application of members holding not less than one-tenth of the shares issued.
§ Mr. GINNELLWill the President of the Board of Trade ask the information either from the Court of Appeal or the liquidator in this case?
§ Mr. BUXTONIn so far as the matter has proceeded we have not been able to take action. It is not a matter that comes within our statutory powers.
§ Mr. BOOTHIs it not possible for a policyholder or a shareholder who is aggrieved to make a claim in court against the directors and prove his case?
§ Mr. GINNELLBefore the right hon. Gentleman answers that question, may I ask him to state who is to bear the cost of an action by the poor people who are being fleeced and swindled?
§ Mr. BUXTONI have said that in these matters the Board of Trade can only act under statutory powers, and so far we have not been able to get a case.
§ Mr. W. THORNEMay I ask whether the Government will be prepared to appoint a Royal Commission to inquire into the methods of collecting societies?
§ Mr. BUXTONThat question does not arise out of this.